has anyone else gotten a “slap on the wrist” for reaching out to a director to talk about an issue? i was recently warned by my manager that reaching out to a director and skipping the order of management could lead to termination. isn’t this a bit much?!
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Wb massaging directors? I’m not doing it again…
The guy that hired me at TDA in 2011 said (much more gently) something like "If you're going around me in the chain of command, at least copy me so I know what's going on..." in response to an email I sent shortly after being hired. That honestly seemed fair. I hadn't worked for an organization that large and sluggish in some time, having spent decades with leaner, meaner startups. In the ensuing years, as the ToS DNA they consumed with the ThinkOrSwim acquisition went viral, things loosened up considerably (and I never heard that complaint from him or other bosses though I was more conscious of it for sure, and did a better job of building trust with my management) and the company got much more agile, less bureaucratic, and more successful. After the Schwab acquisition it seemed like a one decade reset. I couldn't wait it out so I left. Is it too late to think that Schwab might benefit from the TDA DNA?
@wc Yep, you speak the true Schwab toxicity!
@vw If you're working for me then any idea you have belongs to me. You were hired to make me look good and generating ideas is how I look good. That's just how it works. Some day when you have your own team you will own and take credit for the ideas of your people and you will be entitled to do so because your leadership cultivated the environment and mindset that made the idea possible. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my boss feels the same and will be giving me the credit even if it comes to him in an email from some level 6 or 7 employee on my team.
@vw Bad advice. Keep good ideas to yourself. Speaking up is a CLM.
Leadership is a joke here. Whatever you do, if you have an idea for improvement , email it to both manager and director, as proof the idea came from you. I have had ideas presented to both manager and director, And both took credit for them. Still bugs me, the complete lack of integrity.
IMO, if a skip-level conversation feels like betrayal that says more about the manager than the employee. The management style that’s taken off here seems to mistake control for leadership and fear for respect. Things have gotten so toxic that a skip-level is treated like breaking the chain of command & like we’re all at war instead of just trying to do our jobs “through the clients’ eyes”.
What was your motivation in not offering your manager the same level if respect you give his director? If your manager was sharing transformation details with your co-workers but not you would you not be offended?
@mx Lol this is Schwab not boot camp.
If a skip-level conversation threatens your “authority” sound like you might have some pretty bad control issues Strong leaders are not scared of people talking.
The need to limit communication is just another sign of weak leadership running this place.
lt's called a chain of command and any good people leader ensures that it is respected. I would not hesitate to fire any member of my team that blindside me and went over my head. I have zero tolerance for this sort of thing.
I went to a better school than my director and I can code better than my director. I want to fire his a-s and take his job. How do I do that ?!
you got slapped because you made them LOOK b@d! They don't want that in the eyes of the higher ups - yes it is ridiculous but how things work at Schw@b - they don't want to hear how to make things better - the upper echelon is content with the way things are and managing by meetings
@fa
The “id--ts” aren’t saying don’t stand up for yourself, they’re saying know what you’re walking into. In some areas, retaliation isn’t punished, it’s protected. So document away, but know leadership’s betting most folks won’t have the time, money, or energy to prove that the bullies always win at Schwab.
Happens all the time. You try to improve something and it becomes a CLM (career limiting move)
The point isn't to win any internal Schwab case. It's to document that the manager is punishing the employee for activities protected by company policies. Don't listen to any of these id--ts trying to convince you not to stand up for yourself. Yes, you might lose your job, but at Schwab that will happen eventually no matter what. Better to document and prepare for that day.
OP’s termination threat was veiled in leading to language. This is not actionable by policy or labor law. There’s no claim of policy violation, and even if there were, HR would likely close the case. We support managers and HR doesn’t question team management.
@e7 this might be true in theory, but in reality there are people at this firm who are completely untouchable.
Engaging HR just ensures those same people find out who spoke up & that retaliation will follow. Get ready for a PIP, a low/no bonus, limited opportunities, & the obvious push out the door, all while the untouchables stay untouched, unaccountable & rewarded with bigger bonuses & more stock awards.
@db violations of company policies are an HR issue. Being threatened with termination is also an HR issue. OP will regret not bringing HR into this conversation when they are let go.
whatever happened to skip level meetings - that was a place supposedly to have an open conversation - all smoke and mirrors I guess
Oy. First, this is not an HR issue. No regulation or law places the company at risk. Do not go to HR.
Second, it’s a bad manager. We are all coached to encourage skip levels. The only reasons not to are hiding something, the employee isn’t skilled at communicating uplevel, or there’s information the employee doesn’t have.
@b2+1k6xfs1zr Is spot on (from another PL).
Apologize and move on. The advice to record everything is excellent. You’re looking for retaliation and malfeasance evidence. Pay attention to state recording laws, know that it violates policies and only use the recordings with outside council.
The tone around here is dire. Take this as sign your group may be having issues. Good luck.
Notify HR. I reach out to Directors directly for items on a regular basis because sometimes they are the direct point of contact for certain topics. They’re always kind and helpful, I’ve never heard of this. Reach out to HR.
The Director may have hassled the manager about why the employee had to reach out to them and the manager reacted incorrectly with the employee. Just a guess.
As a manager this is not true. I encourage my team to reach out to me for anything they need however are free to reach out to my director if they feel it is needed. I also encourage them to reach out with a thoughtful message instead of just asking for help or to complain. If they have feedback about an issue they should offer a solution instead of just bringing it up. Keep in mind that it is the managers job to field these questions and concerns so if you have to go around the manager the director is going to ask why.
Yes. I’ve been reprimanded for this. Now that four levels or more are MD it makes it hard to tell who is “safe” to reach out to. Never mind the One Schwab fake mentality BS.
Happens all the time, but the open door policy isn't optional even for your manager. They do this for their own purposes. You should notify HR in writing and ask for a consultation. I would ask if you should bring your attorney to the meeting and see how serious they take it. Your manager will be warned and threatened with termination if they provide this guidance again.
@a3 This is actually exactly how such predatory middle managers are surviving.
I guess it all depends on the team you are in. Was that a verbal warning (unrecorded) you got? Next time try luring your manager to put it in writing or chat or even try recording it using snagIT. And then go to HR. Honestly these predatory middle management folks must be removed. I don't know how some of them are surviving.