Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

@k0 There's no way you've seen that exact combo more than once. Guessing you meant to say "things like dolts" and "phrases like..." whilst trying to show your superior language skills. I do love a good "whilst" though. Always reminds me of an old farcical Letter to the Editor once printed in The Onion (in an 18th-century style serif typeface): "I have heard it is unhealthful to eat whilst one's hands are covered in fa---s. Is this true?"

My manager has refused for more than a year a conversation to document my role as it has changed significantly since a new team lead came onboard from outside the bank. I’ve been with the bank for more than 20 years and have never worked without clear guidance like this. What is the benefit of not having roles documented?

@he

I dont believe you. No severance means you fu---d up badly.

@gz I just love it when people call other people dolts whilst using the illiterate phrase "tow the line." The term is TOE the line....dolt. Now go away.

@ez 20 years with one year of IM… never given a written or verbal warning.
Cold call saying I was fired l, not eligible for severance and not rehireable
I was loyal and paid back by being sh!$ on
Still hoping for a class action suit.

Absolutely true! I just retired and so friggin glad to get out of the WF he-l hole

Standards are defined.
Standards are enforced.
OMG THEY ARE OUT TO GET ME!
I love coming here to this site and working at Wells for this drama.

And a heartfelt thank you to all the Dolts who tow this line. It absolutely makes my life as a barely meets blow up into an exceeds to consistently exceeds without even trying. Please, throw the bootlicker comments this way. You take zero personal responsibility and if my days are what you consider bootlicker, oh sister, you’ll find me at the buffet line for it all day every day.

@fj+1kyvxn436

Maybe, but HY couldn't care less what any manager thinks about the issue, especially managers that were around precovid. They don't want us old timers with the company at all, and certainly aren't waiting with bated breath to find out what we think about these policies.

@ej The managers in my department all seemed giddy af when we came back from the Covid WFH period, as if they were thinking "thank god. Now I get to look important without ever really doing much." Working from home reduced their importance. Returning to the office made them VISIBLE and upwardly mobile. Maybe this varies from one department to the next, but the dominant emotion I saw from managers post-Covid was relief.

not new and has been official since 4Q last year. stepping up enforcement now. if you have one IM you are vulnerable to be selected for layoff if there is a reduction - but in that case you'll get severance.

but the real focus is on 2 or more cycles (MY or YE) with less than meets. those are being tracked and execs accountable to get them out - no severance and no replacement.

First "not meets" in 25 years. My boss has taken away all my work. I told him its hard to meet expectations when I have no work. I think I'm sc--wed.

@ap+1kyvxn436

RTO has nothing to do with managers. You think we wanted this S? Get real. It's entirely executive driven and they want to downsize the managers as well. Spans and layers, location strategy, colo, etc. have been used to downsize a ton of managers. The reality is that we're all in the same boat here. There's only two teams, the executives in Hudson Yards, and everyone else.

@ch In what world?

Wells Fargo spent more money and resources including paying outside lawyers than the severance they could have paid me.
I think company doesn't care, legal cost and severance coming out of two different buckets.
Go Wells

I am THRILLED that I got my package, signed it and done two weeks ago before the insane asylum got any worse. I didn't think it could get worse but have heard it's circling the bowl rather quickly.

@af well written !

It was never a rumor, the strategy picked up steam last Fall during annual review planning. It's the new reality.

@af If you don't think Wells is trying to avoid severance, then you haven't been paying attention to earnings.

The shareholders do not want to burden layoff expenses. This has been made clear across other major corporations as well during these past few years.

Increased focus on performance management isn't about dodging severance costs, just like RTO and badge monitoring wasn't about encouraging attrition 🙄 some of the posts on here are seriously naive

@b2

…because Wells Fargo legal department, compliance and HR departments have done such a good job? Unfortunately, they are also under the thumb and influence of the higher-ups. As are their outside lawyers. It all comes down to greed and hubris, and that is ultimately Wells Fargo’s weak link in the chain. Agree with paying $500 to know your rights.

Everyone needs to drop the $500 and consult with a labor attorney to clearly know your rights (they're fewer than you think and than some have posted here), as well as the burden of proof for a wrongful termination suit (it's much higher than you think).

Remember, WFC has overpaid lawyers who have reviewed these practices through the lens of CYA and would not have blessed them if they weren't legally defensible.

@as but I wasn’t promoted.

@ar

It won’t stop them. But if you have proof on your personal device now that they have either acted illegally (the bad review is fabricated to mask an illegal reason for firing) or they have not followed company policy, you can take action against them afterwards. You won’t have a chance to collect it when they’re walking you out.

@af as long as there are performance issues, sure. It is the co-mingling of performance management AND attrition target % expectations that conflict with what you are saying. Having to hit a target percentage of staff reduction regardless of otherwise high performance has created the perfect storm for fake bad reviews to justify firing instead of displacing.

"severance" is not severance.

"severance" is actually payment for an agreement not to sue the company or divulge corporate skeletons / proprietary information. The cost of lawsuits is very high because lawyers bill hundreds of $$$ an hour, even for frivolous ones (and yes about 90% are frivolous).

Some of you think you're entitled. You are not. You can negotiate your severance; what you get will be what its worth WF to shut you up. Some of you, HR will say keep talking, because you only make yourself look bad.

@Post ID: @af+1kyvxn436

ur hilarious

@ar Pretty common for an exceeds to get a less than meets the following year. Expectations increase every year. This happens a lot with people promoted too early. They werent ready for the higher expectations of the next level.

Exceeds and consistently exceeds rated employee here. Suddenly using some made up reasons that were laughable and cannot be proven, was rated less than meets. I have worked long hours, delivered solid business value but suddenly I am no longer needed. And rather than laying me off I believe they’re trying to go for termination. I hear you OP, may be I can document all that but unfortunately I don’t think that’ll stop them.

@af

OP here:

Thank you for responding. You sound like a good manager who is doing what they think is right for the firm. And you are doing what is right for employees if you are using reviews to praise good performance and give them an opportunity to improve their skills and grow. If they are given an action plan and appropriate time to improve, and they do not follow through: then I agree with you.

However that is not what is happening in at least in some parts of the bank. I’ve read it on this forum and taken it with a grain of salt since this is an anonymous forum. But I watched it happen this week to a well-respected person working for an opportunistic callous division leader.

I understand and respect your desire to tamper down my post. No one needs to believe me. Just follow my advice to protect yourself. There is no downside to protecting yourself from a leadership who is known for protecting their own jobs first.

@af If you're a manger, WTF are you doing on this thread during working hours? Don't you have some, you know, managing to do? Are you posting here during one of your many pointless meetings? WF has layer upon layer of unnecessary "managers." This is a big reason for RTO. With everyone working from home, "managers" cannot flit from desk to desk looking important; their uselessness becomes obvious. Gotta get everyone back in the office so it looks like the "managers" are doing something. Layoffs and performance-based terminations should start with the "managers."

I was let go three weeks after a "meets" performance review because I hurt my TL's feewingth. TL would leave incomprehensible notes on my cases and got bent out of shape whenever I asked for clarification. TL was just barely literate, like so many people nowadays. I strongly suspect TL was instructed to ride me like a pony until I snapped. TL lied to HR about it. Spineless manager, who aside from being spineless, was actually pretty nice, wouldn't stand up for me despite acknowledging that TL was incompetent and thin-skinned. If you are a subliterate brown-noser, look for a job at WF. You will thrive there.

@a2

How do you squeeze in any work, with that incessant bootlicking?

Wake up! The tone from the top started at the end of last year when our CAO stared directly at the camera (like the serpent he is) and sternly said “there is no room for low performers at this company.”

That happened literally a week or two after Wall Street dinged WF due to high severance costs.

People that are saying that this stuff isn’t happening are unbelievably clueless. False performance ratings ARE being used to cut employees that have met or exceeded every performance metric. I have seen it happen to multiple exempt FTEs that were in my group.

The deniers will be next

As a manager, I can attest that there is some truth to the increased level of performance management, but I do not believe it is as nefarious as the original post suggests.

During the past several years of heavy layoff activity, some managers, myself included, became too dependent on layoffs to solve performance problems. Instead of formally addressing a low-performing employee through coaching, documentation, and corrective action, it was easier to wait for the next reduction and let the position disappear.

Executives are now pushing managers to do proper performance management again. A poor-performing employee and a position being eliminated are two different situations, and they are supposed to be handled differently.

This means more employees will see tougher reviews, more documentation, and potentially termination for performance than they became accustomed to during the layoff years. But increased accountability is not, by itself, evidence of a coordinated strategy to manufacture “for cause” terminations simply to avoid severance.

It's not a rumor because you said so?

@a2 I wonder what type of person actually posts garbage like this. You must be a real joy to work with lol. Do you find yourself eating lunch in your car alone because nobody likes you ?

@a2 hope you’re next!

this is a violation of the severance plan and other laws.

gonna take a high level employee to distribute the smoking g-n evidence

@a2

I hear you, and your feedback is valid. But let’s see how your POV changes if and when you are the employee/manager who easily repeats “the company line” and then are shocked to be terminated with no severance several days after one negative review and working for the same team for years. Don’t say that it’s not happening because it is. Don’t assume the employee is at fault and the company has clean hands because they don’t.

The real trouble is there are a lot of managers who do their team a disservice by not correcting performance. Some employees are allowed to underperform for years. The manager simply avoids the confrontation or shuffles the underperformer to another group during a reorg. That happens quite a lot. And then the employee gets a manager who corrects the behavior and the employee is shocked.

You are not entitled to a job here, nor are you entitled to severance. Find out from your managet what you need to do to stay meets, and do it.