PERM Visa bans for TATA and others
https://www.news18.com/world/us-suspends-microsoft-infosys-tcs-wipro-cognizant-green-card-programme-over-h1b-abuse-10373451.html
14 replies (most recent on top)
In a healthy society businesses hire and train people for the work they need done. This investment results in a strong employer-employee relationship. The employer wants to keep the employee and the time/money invested in the employee. The employee has job stability.
In modern capitalism, the employer doesn’t want to pay for training or investment in employees. It wants people to pay for their own training and continually up skill out of their own pockets during their own time.
The employer no longer invests in the employee to fatten their profit margins. Employees are no longer investments, but plug and play commodities. The expense has been pushed off to employees/potential employees. The employees then have to spend non-working time upskilling for their employer or risk losing their job, or for acquiring new skills to find employment.
This job insecurity created makes it easier for employers to control wages while getting the benefit of constantly upskilling employees free of cost because of the threat of job loss.
Not as deeply committed as you are to wild assumptions. Can you quote the part of my post that was racist?
@s3 Insofar as US tech workers were "downsized," it wasn't to make room for H1-B workers. It was either due to AI or outsourcing. I realize how deeply committed you are to racism and oversimplification, but the evidence simply doesn't support your preferred take. The engineer of your troubles is in the C-suite, not Hyderabad.
Hey, it's not "zillions", just 165,000 so far this year. Get it right.
So US companies have downsized zillions of domestic tech employees, and your theory is that there still aren't enough US tech employees to meet industry needs? NotSureIfSerious.gif
Wells Fargo is brilliant in opening up locations in India. You don't need visas, h1bs and the contractor company. The government can not prevent the bank from moving a project from a Texas Branch to the Hyderabad branch.
@f9 Recent US computer science grads are facing layoffs for two reasons. One is that they are the most vulnerable to AI-related displacement. The other reason is that computer science is the one STEM discipline that has actually produced too many generalist computer science grads and too few deeply specialized STEM graduates.
There are three things being conflated here. One is actual labor market data, the second is political messaging, and the third is anecdotal evidence, which is the weakest form of evidence. The recent US federal government actions on this topic are about fraud, not displacement. JD Vance is deliberately misrepresenting the government's actions for short-term political gain. The companies being targeting are being targeted for fraud, not for displacing American workers in favor of H1-B applicants.
When Wells Fargo or Disney or AT&T outsource a department to Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, or Wipro, American workers are laid off, work is moved offshore, a small number of H‑1B workers come onsite temporarily, and the rest of the work is done in India or some other location. People see the H1-B workers and assume "they replaced us." The people you should be mad at are the executives and the owners of the US university system.
This is a repeat of something that has happened throughout American history. The 1919 Chicago race riots, for example, were triggered by a similar dynamic. WWI veterans returned home to find their jobs occupied by black migrants from the South. Black workers should've been angry at factory owners for paying them less than the white workers they displaced, while white workers should've been angry at the factory owners for displacing them with cheaper labor. The two groups should've acted in solidarity with one another against the factory owners instead of pointlessly fighting each other, which only served their corporate masters. The targets of your enmity should be your own bosses, not the H1-B workers, who are just another exploited labor group.
"Vance to Microsoft: you laid off 6,000 Americans and took 6,300 H-1Bs. Your green card pipeline is suspended"
@dz lol, no evidence except exactly what's happening here at WF, what's gone on at Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle, etc. No evidence except American computer science grads have amongst the highest unemployment rates amongst college grads despite companies needing compsci. H-1B and outsourcing need to be taxed and regulated accordingly, and H-1B abusers have only themselves to blame. Not racism or whatever b.s.
@df There is no evidence that American workers have been "downsized" to make room for H1-B workers. This is a myth that has been disproved by numerous authoritative studies. Companies hire H1-B workers when the want to expand and there aren't enough US-born workers to fill the positions. Education systems in other nations are heavily subsidized by the government, whereas US STEM students often graduate with $50k–$200k in debt. Moreover, the US K-12 education system has wildly inconsistent math preparation across school districts due largely to huge socioeconomic disparities. The US is a global magnet for advanced STEM work, and not just from India, because it doesn’t produce enough advanced STEM workers domestically. Also, US students see STEM majors as too difficult for the amount of return they receive in exchange for their enormous tuition debt. Meanwhile, foreign students self-select into STEM because it’s the clearest path to upward mobility. Again, this action by the Trump administration is engineered for pre-election optics, and JD Vance's remark is childishly uninformed.
"Which workers", how about the millions that have been downsized so that corporate clowns could replace them with imported indentured servants? The idea that WF needs to import a single tech bro from India is a complete lie. We've literally downsized tens of thousands of them. The workforce is awash with millions of capable tech workers that are US citizens. Get outta here.
Two things: 1.) This is a pre-midterms political stunt and not fully thought-out policy; 2.) "...calling for greater hiring of American workers." What American workers? If America could produce competent workers, we wouldn't need to rely on the H1-B program. Higher education in this country is so rapaciously expensive that people need to stop after they get their BA (or before) and find jobs. They can't afford the ridiculous cost of obtaining advanced degrees.
There's nothing about outsourcing there?? If anything it will encourage it as a cost cutting measure if those visas are cut off (they'll also probably just shift to others)
Microsoft, for example, hired 1.5 H1B workers for every US Citizen and/or Green Card holder that they let go. In some cases, those that were let go were forced to train their H1B replacements or risk their severance payments.