Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

"This company does not do promotions any more unless you change roles"

Perhaps in your group / LOB, but my team absolutely does. Just promoted such a person.

@ywi+1aMUXSXr. Yep, and people are treated differently, based on gender.

@ 5qsn+1aMUXSXr - your assertion that hiring manager should talk to the applicant’s current manager only after an offer is made is completely a wrong assumption. I do not know what the policy handbook says but this is not enforceable and it not common sense either. Take my own case when I applied for a director level opening in a sister team. Before I could even mention to my manager that I had applied, my manager had already received an informal call from the hiring manager as this manager was already sifting through the applicant list. There is a big difference between policy (if any) and practice . I agree with OP generally - do not apply if you are not preparing your own management that you are exploring internal opportunities . I know this is tricky and tough but not preparing your manager and blindly applying is a sure-shot recipe for disaster .

The hiring manager can only reach out to your current manager when they have made an offer to you. They speak to the current mgr. to work out a start date.

@1urw you won't know until you're in the interview.

Case in point, one interview I was in the interviewing manager was waiting for the reporting manager to show up. This guy walks in, sits down, crosses his arms and literally gives me this "Why the F are you here?" look.

Interviewing manager stayed professional but before a single question was asked, I knew I wasn't getting that job.

Then there were the d-mb, make you beg for the job types, who call you up and say you were in the top three, but they're going with someone else. You're actually the top candidate in that job, but they want you to argue for the job to prove you really want it.

I never played that game because I didn't want to deal with that poor of a manager. That was all the rage for a while though.

They have to hide out from you because they'd get in trouble if you found out.

@1dhb, how do we know if the hiring manager doesn’t have someone picked out for the job already? My very short interviews confirmed that but it was after fact that I had applied/interviewed.

When there is no transparency as such, it’s hard to know what you are going after.

I have 2 decades of internal job changes under my belt here.

Unless you're applying for bottom-level positions, there are really only three ways you get hired into a new role internally without being promoted:

1. Apply for a job where the hiring manager doesn't already have someone picked out since most hiring managers post jobs to meet fairness requirements before hiring, not to find candidates.

2. Apply for a job where few internal candidates applied/qualified for interviews. I was once interviewed for a job that would have required lots of on-the-job training and during the interview, the hiring manager effectively begged me to say I didn't want the job so he could hire someone from outside who actually had the skills he wanted. I should have never made it to the interview but I must have been the only marginally qualified internal applicant and they had to consider internal applicants before posting externally.

3. Be the person the hiring manager has already picked out before the job is even posted.

Like the saying goes, it's who you know, not what you know.

I would think WFC’s policy should block a potential new manager from reaching out to the existing manager of an employee before the employee has been officially hired. That opens the door for a lawsuit if the existing manager says anything that prevents the employee from getting the new job.

If managers don’t want their employees moving, they need to fight for them to get ahead in their current role. If they don’t and lose them, that’s on them.

This company does not do promotions any more unless you change roles. Not too bright if you want to keep the knowledge you have among your people. But it’s all about getting cheaper and that offshore resource or kid out of school probably is, even though the quality cannot help but be lacking until they get equal experience.

I've seen the reverse when managers are told about their employee taking a new role and nobody gave the manager a heads up. Total d move.

in my experience the easiest way to get promoted in this company is to self promote by looking internally. Not that promotions don't happen, they are just few and far between. Additionally, I have only ever reached out to a candidates manager when they are the final candidate and that has also been the case when members of my team have left or even when I have left. not that others don't do it differently, but I think that is the norm.

It is done this way at all 5 banks which I have worked for. The only moves that I’ve ever been able to make are based upon networking, and HR representatives were PO’d that I made the move.

Get out of banking.

Your a total Liar, this doesn't happen. Just admit it your spreading lies.

"Apparently" about that time the hiring manger decided to reach out directly to my manager

Recruiter called you on a Sunday? Weird.

They send an email to our whole group today about new opportunities only to later say only applies to Midwest.

@vvj+1aMUXSXr

You're reading things into the situation that aren't there. I said "read the book" because it clearly states that the hiring manager may reach out to your manager, which the OP clearly wasn't aware of with their 'without my knowledge or permission!' comment. Anything beyond that, good, bad or indifferent about consequences or what some manager might / might not do etc., is coming from an overly active imagination and/or isn't a response to my post.

I would not suggest looking internally; I looked and then finally got this one offer and job turned out to be fake. Then the old manager using as a way to get me to go. Well, I already had better external offer, so was not too tragic to me.

I would just suggest to be careful as your manager sees it as you insulting them versus you bettering yourself. Then they will play all these kinder garden games to push you out or make your life miserable.

Huiun

The ridiculous "read the handbook" notes are ignorant of the consequences of notifying managers early. In a healthy culture this is a norm of courtesy offered early out of respect. In a culture where layoff criterion are not well defined and HR is only looking to hire diversity candidates despite it being what they are supposedly fighting against, you have a very low statistical certainty of moving forward. It would be self immolation to "do the right thing" and notify a manager before ever getting a serious panel post HR screen.

You are required to notify your manager once you make it to screen. Not before.

Managers reaching out to other managers prior to this are not following the rules and should only do so if an offer is being considered POST screen.

I was a victim of the "reach out" on an abandoned posting and was marginalized and ostracized by my current boss for daring to consider moving up.

Does no one read the Employee Handbook anymore? There's a section on internal job opportunities. Sometimes I wonder if people that have never worked for Wells post here just to stir the p-t.

Don't tell your manager until you are on a short list of hires and they are serious about your candidacy. I tried be "up front" about looking internally once and I was on the next list of layoffs.

When I looked internally, my recruiter asked me if it was ok for the hiring manager to reach out to my current manager. I had nothing to hide, and in fact had a great employee record, so I said sure. I guess not everyone works the same way.

If you get an interview, it is wise to clue your manager in. If you get on the short list, why wouldn’t they find out info from your current manager? I would.

They don't need your knowledge (though you clearly know sooo...) or permission. And what do you mean by "pretty much write me off"? Did they fire you?

I'd never consider applying for a job internally without telling my manager first.. I actually thought it mandatory (or at least a professional courtesy). I guess things have changed.

Oh boy! What a mess! These hiring managers need some training on how to hire internally.

YIKES!!! One of the reasons I stopped looking internallly