Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

@1nhd. Good talk. Thank you for you responding, fairly and respectfully.

@jko there is really no good answer, because the truth is any system man can design, he can twist to his own ends. The only fool proof system is to have people who value the right thing and act accordingly.

Arbitration sounds great- a neutral arbiter or panel that’s supposed to decide fairly. In practice the outcome is decided based on what arbiter is picked. Most arbiters support the employer because that’s who pays most of their fees and they want to keep making a living.

Honestly, you have to work at a company with a leader you respect, who leads by example and shows that candor is valued, competence is rewarded, and pettiness is not welcome. Those exist, but they are rare, especially in large organizations. At some point an organization takes on a life of its own and becomes about perpetuating itself.

I am a transactional person. I view this job as a transaction. I provide knowledge and expertise to the company, I get pay and benefits in return.

The deck is stacked in favor of the company- it has a lot more power than me when it comes to the work I do, the environment I work in, and the compensation. Most times. But the company has no power to stop me from leaving. I am good at what I do. I feel comfortable in my position and I think a layoff for me is unlikely. But I have a plan B and C- interviews with two other employers.

My heart goes out to people who don’t have options and can’t easily create them. But honestly, disputing anything is a deck chairs on the Titanic proposition. If you have an issue with your boss, being vindicated by HR or anyone else is not going to solve the culture problem that got your boss where they are. If the organization’s leader is committed to change then there will be change.

@avt thank you for coming back. Your new info gives more context. You can see my answer to your original response down about 7 spots. (To @avt from @hxk: Those are solutions, in theory...)

I’ve worked for Wells for a long time. The experience of most employees at Wells Fargo is that the services through Wells are there to protect and serve Wells Fargo, not the employees. It might be different at other companies, but the only time they will take an employee’s side here is if it somehow benefits Wells to do so. The OCC has called out WFC for a backlog of 3000 employee complaints, and I’m sure you know the history of Wells going back to 2016 retaliating against whistleblowers and firing 5000 employees. HR/ER has never been on the side of employees here. I’m not saying the individual HR employees are unfair, the organization is unfair.

There is very little organizational trust. Going over your manager’s head is a career k–ler. Employee complaint line is supposed to be arm’s-length, but I witnessed a team mate go through that process and her manager was notified and she is now black-listed. I have another coworker who was literally physically assaulted at her desk by a man whom she and other women in our department had been complaining about to management and HR for years. Unfathomable, but true. Wells might be trying to get it right, but they just never do.

I suppose if I were to make a suggestion, it would be to have a committee here that is fair and impartial to all parties. A type of arbitration as you speak of. And an employee representative on The Board.

@bxy+16SUTtyK

Stacked ranking exercise is indeed in play.

I’m @avt. I’ve worked in HR other places. Not at WF. I wasn’t asking to be glib, though I get that it may have seemed that way. I’m honestly curious. What further process would you want to make you feel you got a fair shake? WF offers more than most places I’ve been, except public sector with unions- but even there your final resort is arbitration, and the union, not you, makes the call on whether a dispute goes to arbitration.

@shj are you the same person as @avt? Your dismissive attitude tells me you are new to the firm. Or you think you are smarter than most? Clueless? Work in HR/ER?

Because I don’t know anyone with experience in Corporate America that advises an employee to go over their boss’s head. Unless perhaps he/she is doing something/illegal.

For the 1,305,493 time, HR and management are not on your side.

Rank stacking claims are absolutely not true.

Embrace candor

People around wells are so afraid of everything.

Go to your boss and have a conversation. If you have have to go to their boss do so.

@wkb: I am normally supportive of my fellow posters. But seriously? You start out smug, and you end with stupid. I‘m voting you off the island.

To @avt from @hxk: Those are solutions, in theory, but most would agree that Wells Fargo’s bias is to side with a manager over an employee. I have witnessed that myself with employee complaints in my department. Particularly a poorly rated employee, who will be labeled as a complainer. And especially at a company who is now controversially requiring their managers to stack their rankings. Most who have had any experience or knowledge of ER and HR do not trust they are objective. They certainly were not in 2016. Any improvements are reported to be window dressing. Winning a case through the EEOC has a high burden of proof and only covers discrimination due to race, religion, s-x, age, disability and such. It doesn’t cover you if you just have a dysfunctional manager.

I am at a stage in life where I would certainly take all routes and probably go down standing up for myself, but the cards are stacked against most employees.

You can raise concerns with your manager, your manager’s manager and so on up the line. You can open a dispute with Employee Relations. If you think you’ve been unlawfully discriminated against you can also file a case with your state anti-discrimination agency or the EEOC. What additional process do you want?

@jfc: Beautifully said!

Personally, I don’t want to have to spell-check, grammar-check, punctuation-check every one of my posts to keep the trolls at bay. Especially the dumb ones 🙄.

OP makes an excellent point regarding there being no due process for Performance Reviews. I don’t have any ideas on how a company would pull that off, but I could if I put some thought in to it. I do agree with the concept and have empathy for someone in that position, especially a newer or younger employee.

I know a lot of good managers who are TERRIBLE at Performance Reviews. Reviews are time-consuming so overloaded managers rush through them, a manager can be unintentionally biased or might stereotype, some managers consider reviews to be more bs shoved down their throats by HR, some managers play “favorites” etc.

So what is the recourse for an employee who is unfairly reviewed by a bad manager? Certainly not HR or ER. It is an inequitable one-sided non-objective process.

@glv, your=you're. I wouldn't want you on my team either.

@jfc, love your response!!

Why would you want to work for a company/manager like this? Take the severance and find a better company.

@wkb

Um, the OP used the right word. The context is that discrimination is the exception, meaning that due process is applied for discrimination cases but there is no due process more generally.

Accepting means that due process in reviews allows for discrimination, which is nonsensical in this context as well as a contradiction in terms.

A lot of people at WF have poor grammar and writing skills, looks like you are a member of that club as well as a victim of your own inflated sense of skill.

@wkb Your not nice!

I would not want you on my team either. You don't even know the difference of accepting and excepting.