Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

Clearly whomever posted about parental/maternity leave being an issue has never been a parent.

It always amazes me when people have zero empathy for others unless they’re going through something or are simply incapable of caring.

Good to see some people understand that mental health is a health issue.

Sad to see some people complaining about family leave. Maybe a remedial biology class on where babies come from would be helpful.

Here's how the world works, sometimes you're the healthy one, sometimes you're not.

If you're not, we got your back, because next time, we may not be the healthy one.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think there are any doctors posting on this site, but there may be an HR person reading this and thinking about the HIPPA nightmare coming their way.

Seriously, people who complain about other people getting away with A, B, or C, usually tend to be underperforming and deflecting.

My sister who lives and works in the UK was written out in her 8th month of pregnancy due to pre-eclampsia and being dialated 1-2 cm. She was put on bed rest. She had a beautiful baby shower and everyone was excited for the new bundle of joy to arrive.

At a regular check up, there was no heart beat. My sister had to give birth to her son and leave the hospital with no baby in her arms. This was followed by a funeral of the utmost heart wrenching loss you could ever imagine. Her husband carried the small coffin down the aisle and placed it at the front of the church. The crying and absolute devastation was unbearable to see by all. Family, friends and coworkers all rallied around her.

My sister was in a severe depression for over a year. She needed and received mental help and was put on medications to help ease the suffering and depression. I did not recognize my sister physically and she had broken emotionally and was not the same after the death of her son. Her eyes were lifeless, she barely functioned to get out of the bed to shower or eat.

Living in the UK, she had benefits that covered everything. She was paid a full salary for a year and her job was held until she could return, that is the difference between the UK and USA regarding maternity leave and parental bonding. Even though her son died, she was still granted the leave to recover. Her husband was also granted paternity leave for 6 months, as they both were grieving and both need the time to heal, go to counseling and get the psychological care they needed. To this day he is still haunted by carrying that little coffin down the aisle of the church.

Imagine walking past a lovingly decorated nursery and crib with gifts piled high and all the lovely things that were purchased for the new baby in your home and seeing it empty with no baby.

She went back to her exact job a year later, healthier and stable. Her employer welcomed her return and her team all rallied around her. Her husband went back to work after 12 weeks, his way of dealing with loss was much different than hers, as he wanted to stay busy to keep his mind off the grief and loss.

Our benefits here in the USA are quite different. Standard Maternity Leave is 6-8 weeks. Sometimes 8-12 weeks for a c-section or multiple birth. Then mothers are forced back to work within the 12 weeks of FMLA or risk losing their job, livelihood, medical benefits and much more. Many companies do not offer parental leave or parents bonding time for mothers or fathers.

The standard Bereavement leave is 2 weeks or 10 business days.

Now imagine if my sister and her husband lived and worked in the USA what her experience would have been after an unspeakable and devastating loss.

I ask that you give those on true Medical Leave compassion and understanding. While Mental Illness does not happen overnight, a traumatizing event like that can trigger PTSD, depression and anxiety.

Ah yes, the good ole “they smiled in this cherry-picked-for-social-media photograph! They can’t possibly have anything negative going on in their lives!”

This exact attitude is what’s preventing people from taking time off to get treatment for their mental health issues. You’re only told that coworker took time off for “stress” because no one wants their medical history - mental or physical - announced to their entire office. You have no idea if she spent every day fighting the urge to off herself because her mental state was becoming too much to handle. Yet, she must be fine because she smiles for a picture!

That’s the other thing about mental health treatment - it takes time. Patients usually have to cycle through a ton of different d–g therapies before finding one that works for them, and often times the first few d–gs they try actually worsen their symptoms. Then when they finally find the d–g that works for them they still have to work on themselves, their mindset, and find what makes their lives worth living. Which is where they’ll usually get sh– because “how dare you be happy for a day on your mental health leave while the rest of us are working!!”

This attitude needs to change if we ever want to address the mental health crisis in the United States.

I'm one of those who is on medical leave a lot. I have a chronic illness but I can't afford to go on SS disability. I don't find it easy to get leave approved. Last time I was out, I was in the hospital for 5 days and my dr. made me go back to work a few days later. And some of the trolls I work with sit around and talk about me to anyone who'll listen, how I come and go whenever I want, etc. etc. and they KNOW that I'm sick.
So, my point is no, it's not easy to scam the system AND people who sit around and speculate and talk S*it about people need to mind their business. WF is toxic enough without attacking your co-workers.

"You can be terminated while on any leave other than FMLA (family leave)."

You forgot about military leave. You cannot be terminated while on military leave. That is a USERRA lawsuit waiting to happen.

OP sounds like he is speculating. He has no idea why these people are off work. Just because the gossip mill says stress or a broken thumb doesn't mean that's the reason. Although, pics on social media looks bad, it doesn't prove fraud. Also, it doesn't mean the person isn't suffering from something that is preventing them from doing their job.

If the person was approved for medical leave a doctor had to have determined the person needed the off. Mind your business and worry about yourself.

The one that lost me was the complaint about maternity/stress/bereavement case. Maternity isn't a typical path for fraud. Stress could be, but postpartum depression is a real thing and then if that was followed by bereavement, it seems totally plausible.

@olp+16VoGSVg - this is not about compassion, trust or “minding one’s own business” as @hba+16VoGSVg likes to put. This is about taking action when fraud is happening in front of your eyes: do you stay quiet or confronting it? As others said here, there is evidence of rampant abuse at Wells Fargo and the organization has a history of criminal behavior, so the assumptions could be valid. What you were doing when the fake accounts were being created ? Did you stay silent and benefit from it?

I stand corrected, this is obviously a huge problem. By all means, report these perpetrators to HR based on assumptions, gossip and/or a post you see on social media. What could possibly go wrong?

Lincoln committing fraud?

I'm ok with employees going in disability we understand the situation.

Actually the fraud in this space is wide spread... Lincoln acknowledged this on a call recently when going over the current interface and stating that alot of what they do for wells is only for wells... no other company does this in the US. The business even acknowledged this on the call that it does not come out of leave... its not part of FMLA and it also stops the clock... they gave an example of one person who has been in and out using this loophole for over a year...

Wow, WF really is toxic if the prevalent assumption during a global pandemic, homeschooling, wildfires and massive layoffs is, anyone taking medical leave is faking it. Aside from it being none of anyone else's business, ever heard of trust or compassion? Yes, I'm aware of a few folks in my time doing this to avoid being fired – not to avoid displacement. As noted below, not only is medical leave hard to get... it doesn't offer protection from layoff.

All this time spent gossiping and tattling on coworkers might be better spent updating your resumes and LinkedIn profiles, if you are so worried about your professional futures.

Dont think 16 weeks off with full pay is pittily for parental leave lol

Hey OP - WTF is your problem with maternity leave and bereavement leave? US parental leave policies are among the piss poorest in the world... and you begrudge a new parent the measly allotment provided by WF? And bereavement? Really? you do realize that means an immediate family member passed away.

And did you ever consider that the stress leave in between those two was because an immediate family member was fatally ill?

Grow up.

You can be terminated while on any leave other than FMLA (family leave). FMLA is the ONLY leave that stops the clock (and you dont get paid a salary while away). So I'm not sure why they'd think they are protecting themselves by going on disability.

Also, for most of us, a cut in pay to almost half is not livable.

So disability is not (and should not be) a way to dodge the layoff axe.

For those who are abusing the medical benefits, and their coworkers known for sure then they should report them! They are taking away from people who are really sick and needs the benefits to survive. Please report them, they are low lives and need to pay back every penny or be prosecuted and go to jail!!

getting a leave granted is not easy so my guess is these leaves are valid. I had cancer and had to jump through hoops to get one granted to extend my time off as treatment also involved surgery. Total nightmare and more stress than it was worth. While recovering at home in bed (that I could not move from) I had to act as liaison between insurer, HR and dr office. My priority should have been healing and instead dealing with paper pushers (HR and insurance co) without an ounce of sympathy for what I was dealing with.

I have never worked with lazier people than at WF. Horrible schedule accountability, endless call ins, work avoidance abuse. I hope all the lazy fks get fired for attendance now that they changed the policy.

if your department is seeing increased stress leaves, it's a sign of how toxic the work environment has gotten

Just because someone posts pictures of themselves doing something "happy" does not mean that they are committing fraud. Any kind of leave, including stress leave, means that the person can't perform the functions required of their job, in the assessment of a doctor and the insurer... and the insurer is not really looking to pay out - their scrutiny/assessment is harsh. It doesn't mean you have to be hospitalized, or in a mental institution, or be sitting in a dark room rocking back and forth all day.

There is an incredibly onerous and rigorous process that is followed for leave approval. If you've never been through it, count yourself lucky that you've been in good enough mental and physical health not to need it.

I’ve seen the abuse in previous companies, it’s far worse at Wells Fargo

It’s not hard, despite the claims above, to get a doctor’s note for headaches, anxiety, stress, depression. While they may be needed in some cases, once you have someone out and getting paid it spreads through a department like wildfire through word of mouth on how to get paid without working.

The solution is to deny accommodated absences for the first six months of employment, if this is not possible then not offer short term disability for the first six months.

Considering the state of the world right now, Cancun for a few weeks may be a good idea.

I have no idea why there are a few trolls here that constantly complain about co-workers.

Got any layoff related news?

No? Okay, thanks then.

Mind your own business and stop speculating.

yeah it certainly happens- report it

No doctor will sign off on Medical Leave and risk their license to practice. Especially not for “stress” or supposed mental illness.

Mental Illness is a diagnosis that doesn’t happen over night. There are medical records and pharmacy/medication records that can prove this person was suffering from a mental illness for years or even decades.

Audits are conducted by hospitals and practitioners to avoid having a questionable diagnosis or doctor who writes out a number of patients.

The multiple stacks of forms required by HR and Liberty Mutual/Lincoln Financial Group every month and quarter make it nearly impossible for fraud to be committed.

In addition a separate Medical Review and Exam can and will be conducted by LM/LFG by an independent doctor to verify extended medical leave with pay.

Before jumping to conclusions, there may be a diagnosis that this team member doesn’t want to disclose and is seeking treatment for. Such as HIV/AIDS, Cancer or MS.

I can tell you from first hand experience after having a stroke that it was not an easy task to coordinate any type of fraud. I was also reviewed by LM/LFG as well as a Social Security Disability independent doctor/specialist year over year to ensure that my condition was not reversible or will improve. It took 3 years to be approved for SSDI, and that was after hiring a Disability Attorney. I had to pay back every single cent of Long Term Disability pair by LM/LFG.

I lost the use of my arm, had to go to speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy. I gave it all I could. I didn’t expect to wake up one morning and be disabled. In fact, the demands of a 70+ hour week and stress at Wells Fargo caused it. I was 98 pounds when I was taken to the ER.

If you suspect fraud, report it to HR/ER. Take screen shots of those FB, IG and Twitter posts. If this person seems to be on vacation and doing just fine living their best life and not actually seeking treatment at a facility for their stress or mental illness then the claim will be denied.

These type of Medical Leave Fraudsters takes benefits away from people like me that truly need it to survive financially and medically.

Sincerely,
Stroke Survivor and Thriving

Someone in a previous company I worked at did this and posted pictures of Cancun and drinking; needless to say they got fired when they returned