Thread regarding SAP layoffs

@gz "retrained"... Entire dev teams laid off, half of the ones who got "new positions" were moved to another manager and doing the exact same job (the roles are needed, since customers need dev and support for the specific product), the other half that stayed at SAP were left moved to L1 support roles pushing tickets around... There is no "retraining".

Layoffs will continue until morale improves.

@mb
I have no idea why you were voted down

@mg the tools on the board will not re-tool you. Move on.

@mg “the board keeps claiming its upskilling and retooling the company for AI ”

You are missing the point.
Retooling yourself not the company.
You need to move out of this company, this will be a shhhiitt show until they figure out what they are doing.

@mg Clearly people missed my main message, which is to stop kil*ing yourselves over the SAP board and allowing them to live rent free in your head, the only way to feel less nervous is to prepare for the worst. People think that was a shill post! But earning an income separate to SAP is a smart move, but still fight and keep your job here if you can.

@mb thats all fine and good and most real engineers do that anyway, BUT, the board keeps claiming its upskilling and retooling the company for AI whilst doing nothing but firing people in expensive countries with lax labour laws and hire large numbers of cheap non AI skilled "business developers" in low cost, low standard of life countries. That's not a company retooling for the AI age and investing in AI, that's a company pretending to be doing that whilst gaming the bottom line to prop up the share price before they bail out.

So the question for you guys here is, now that forever layoffs are the norm, it's not what the board can do...but what you can do to protect yourself in the unfortunate event of a job loss. The traditional 9-5, sole-income arrangement is not working anymore now that AI has devalued university credentials and has made layoffs a normal "teeth brushing" part of the company routine. Most single salaries aren't living wages anymore.

Start building side income streams, work casual jobs, drive for Uber during peak hour periods for $60/hour, invest heavily for early retirement and work construction jobs on the weekends now that we have a housing crisis (like drywalling, carpeting, carpentry, nail gunning, removal services and painting). Upskill not just for your employer but for future other employers, learn to code AI, start a side business unrelated to SAP, etc. You need to maximize your pay and skills diversity for utility in this tough economy. Because SAP is sure as heck trying to maximize their money out of your labor and if you got a problem...tough luck they will replace you with a low cost headcount. Hence, so many people "burning out".

Just my two cents, try to insure/protect yourself against their decision to cut you.

It’s unpopular but I will say it again: too many people don’t want to upskill on their own dime.
I decided long ago I will put aside my own money for training and I don’t have to worry about getting approved. I take training in whatever the market wants and I am so far staying employed.

@h3 Also inside of Germany where colleagues have been asked to find another role within SAP. Obviously they will have to leave the company as most of the job postings are fake.

@gw Outside of Germany where the workers council and government policies force them to I have never seen any effort at all to reskill any employee at all. All the laughable training offered is to deal with SAP's bloated development standards and not to actually skill up any engineers in any real engineering skills. Its just the same as the yearly harassment and bribery training, paper deep to get certain boxes ticked on some compliance worksheet. If you could see some real engineering training courses being made available then I might believe what they are trying to sell, but as they don't then I wont

@gz But it does in most cases. Almost every engineer I know who was made redundant was systematically excluded from getting another job if it didn't involve moving to a low cost location and then large numbers of new hires to bring in AI skills happened in cheap locations of low skilled "business developers".

@gw SAP does this. I personally know a number of people who had the 'infamous' email from HR, but still found another role within SAP and were retrained.
Don't make it out as if SAP just eliminates people and replaces them with cheaper labour. It does, of course, happen sometimes but not in all cases

@gp how about trying to truely (and not just saying) reskill at least a portion of the employees targeted to be laid off? How about instead of just payment a lot of money in severance and early retirement (basically pay people not to work) you try at least to redeploy some of them? How about having the decency and dignity to share number of people impacted and criteria of selection? To easy equation to justify their operate in this way, especially the lack of transparency.

You don't get it. Really?
Let's follow your scenario.....we keep everyone employed. How do we get new people? Oh....we just hire those as well and our costs explode.
Alternatively, we don't hire and keep going with the people we currently have. So, we need to innovate and make new products with people who sit on their a$$es and are waiting for retirement.
Either way....profits start to go down, no salary/bonus increases are possible. The market starts to lose confidence. End result....SAP goes down and thousands of people lose their jobs.

Is that what you want?
Just face reality....you work in an industry where this is common practice. Nothing special about SAP

The Q3 earnings call made it clear that forever layoffs are here to stay, but this is something the big tech industry has suffered for the last 2 years. I won't get into the details of the call, but essentially he saw how foreign countries were excelling better than Germany for example in managing costs on their products (both material and labor). This was his starting point in justifying layoffs because (A) he is admitting that Western economies are losing influence due to global dedollarization, high costs of living and doing business and geopolitical instability, (B) laying people off to make way for AI talent is needed probably because AI talent is in high paid demand/replaced in low cost location, and (C) This is despite the low adoption of AI solutions, which could imply that the new AI talent will be the first to go if things go south (i.e. AI bubble bursts).

That call was all about justifying forever layoffs. It wasn't about hiding it or saying that it will end soon.

Because they can.

Despite layoffs, they get better scores through unfiltered year on year. And every year, the board members get millions in bonuses on top of their salaries. This makes the monetary divide between them and the employees worse but the employees keep worshipping the board and giving them good unfiltered reviews. So it will only get worse.

@cr I don't think so.

In my experience by far most people are decent humans. And I think this is also true for the board. It is the circumstances, the internal and external pressure from employees, the supervisory board, large investors, suppliers, customers, competitors, governments and the public that forces their hands in directions I am sure they regret, but are unable to change.

Let us all assume that all the others are decent until proven otherwise. It makes life much better for everyone.

Because they don’t care. It’s about SAP stock. They will give a nice story how much they care and career progress.

Stop listening to what they say and watch what they do.

Why waste all this money on unnecessary positions to hire especially in Culture and HR

Waste

The board would not change its mind unless it is absolutely necessary.

We need to trust them.