Anyone know if the rules governing demarcation still stand? I ask because at&t southeast is now having Core techs like FTs install routers, PBX , and other equipment past the demarc on business customers’ premise. The rule was always that this work had to be done by a separate business unit. If att wants to do CPE work , it has to use its CPE techs , which were in a separate business unit. Vice versa too. CPE techs could not do core work. At&t is also now having their CPE techs (like system techs) do work traditionally done by FTs and ETs. Did the laws governing this now change ? Seems to me this is another way att is trying to reduce head count and do more surpluses.
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@2myy...
Over the last few years there has been some surplussing of DT-DEG, some through cuts, some through SIPP and some have been rolled into C&E FT Splicing jobs. It seems like they only want 1 DEG in each rural area and as few as they can get by with in the larger towns.
DT-SSIM doesn't seem to have been hit as hard. More attrition/ready SIPP takers than cuts.
(Obviously not every area is the same, just speaking in general).
Huh, looks like the moderator is working this morning. About half of my post was cut. I must have struck a nerve in something I said.
As long as it is a vague that is OK, just don't start connecting the dots. They don't like that.
From a Reply above,
"Systems techs were unique in that they only dealt with enterprise customers and installed large PBXs and key systems for enterprise customers and small business."
Correct. The key word here is "were". That is no longer the case.
I am a Systems Tech and everything I have read in this thread is pretty close to what we are seeing here. Our biggest concern which we have been seeing for a few years now is that Key Systems and PBXs are being replaced with VoIP sets and Skype For Business via a plain ole Internet connection, all of which is being configured remotely. Our jobs are being dumbed-down to where all of the intelligence is eliminated from the craft person and configured remotely. As a result, we feel threatened as we see other people now doing what little work we have left.
We knew PBXs however, until then I think the Company will slow walk their planned moves (surpluses, work consolidation, etc). Having said that, I have seen the leaked "working document" and it shows over 400+ surpluses in the SE for the 3rd Qtr. So, who knows.
@-2fis Very good posts about the DT explanation and the management movements in your area. It seems the aame thing is happening almost everywhere in SE. On the last part of sales promising miracles to the customers and the inside wiring work ordered by the managers, I would love to see one of them running a cable by itselfs!! 😂 😂
Are DTs experiencing significant layoffs ?
@YQ, you are spot on. That’s our experience in South Florida.
To OP:
See my reply to mc1.
In my area, Specials techs(DT-SSIM)are installing some routers on the same truck roll as circuit install in their AT&T wire center. SSIM has been assisting the System Techs with some of the large scale CPE projects like McDondals & Publix. We cross charge our time, kind of like being loaned to Construction back in the day. Looks like they are trying to combine the 2 jobs next contract.
So you've got Facility Techs(cable repair I assume) installing routers(not a DSL/bvoip modem)?
As far as demarc is concerned, it should still stand as always. The Sales Office, in an effort to close the deal, is telling all customers of all services that we will extend wiring to their desired location free of charge. We have been instructed to comply, and have to specify on each job where we extended the wiring to and write a book report if we don't. We have been told that we may even be installing our own conduit and renting scissor lift equipment when needed. Needless to say, we still don't get any more time for it.
Management is apparently very concerned about inside wiring and they apparently still don't give a D@mn about our rotten cables(maybe if they would care about all of the IW we have strung out bypassing our cables...nahh they won't!)
@mc1....
Digital Technician #1: DEG aka DLC aka the old SLC crew, they are under the C&E management wing. Responsible for PairGain voice carriers(POTS dial tone), DSL switches & SONET muxes in RT sites. In a nutshell, they are an extension of the Central Office, not directly customer facing.
Digital Technician #2: SSIM aka Specials aka Hicappers aka the old Network Techs, they are under the I&M management wing. They are customer facing. Install & repair any non dialtone type circuit from a pair of dry wires(for an on/off circuit for a local water department) to DDS(56/64KB), BRISDN, PRISDN, T1, DS3, Switched Ethernet, video links, to an as-fast-as-u-want-it optical circuit. Gets service to the base of a cell tower for all of the wireless carriers (ATT, VZW, TMobile, Sprint, etc). Handles 911 communication circuits and in some places the 911 CPE. Also handles business dial tone that has a test point or DPA(Dual Premise Address). Recently been given I&M of 3-6 line BVOIP services.
Systems Techs: there are some that exclusively handle intercompany voice & data CPE services(non customer facing). There are some that exclusively handle the same thing for retail customers(customer facing). In the more rural areas, some System Techs do both.
As of late, AT&T has joined the System Tech & DT-SSIM into the same management group. In some places, System Techs are now reporting directly to the DT-SSIM Manager, alongside his other DT-SSIM techs. The managers who only have System Techs in their crew are under the SSIM 2nd level manager.
SSIM, when going out to install an ASE circuit, has been given the task of installing the AT&T router if the customer is using AT&T for their router services. The management theory is to eliminate the System Tech truck toll since the DT-SSIM tech is already going there first. System Techs are still doing all repairs, any install that is not in an AT&T local wire center, and any router install fallout that was not able to be completed by a DT-SSIM tech.
Word is that the System Techs and DT-SSIM jobs will be combined after next contract.
As far as bumping & SIPP goes, the last time the contract was held up to the light on a clear day facing North with no wind blowing and a full moon it was said that System Tech can only bump DT-SSIM and vice versa. System Tech & DT-SSIM can SIPP for DT-DEG and vice versa, however, DT-DEG can also bump & SIPP the rest of the C&E(OPT & FT-Splicer) and I&M(Service Tech & FT-Cable Repair) titles.
I report what has been going on in my area, if things are being done differently in other areas, I have no knowledge.
Done by accounting fools who don't know what each job does, in upper minds it's all the same stuff, just guys in trucks fixing stuff.
System Techs are not interchangeable with digital techs.
The goal would be to merge jobs, to cut costs, just know understanding of the roles.
“I'm reading it the other way around. Page 248 of the contract. There is an asterisk by the System Technician and no asterisk by the Field Services Technician”
No he’s referring to digital technicians and there are TWO types of DTs. The DTs in ssim are in the same skill group. 9. They can bump systems techs but systems techs can bump them too. It’s all a joke. They can’t do each other’s jobs. Completely different skills in reality. The company’s entrance exam was the same for both titles but that’s just an aptitude test. Systems techs spend years learning to program various PBXs not to mention data networking. A DT can’t possibly learn it in 6 months. After 6 months , the manager can then rid himself of the transferred DT if he can’t perform.
I'm reading it the other way around. Page 248 of the contract. There is an asterisk by the System Technician and no asterisk by the Field Services Technician.
- Only these titles may bump in this skill group.
I'm reading that as the title with the asterisk is the one that can do the bumping. But< i guess concerned parties can ask the union.
What is the job / responsibilities of the Digital Technician ? Thanks!
Digital technicians (SSIM) and systems technicians (CPE) in at&t southeast have now been put under the same umbrella of SSIM TFS. I’ve wondered about this myself because systems techs could not be bumped before the current southeast contract. The reason for that was, as you stated, Core could not perform CPE work and vice versa. Systems techs were unique in that they only dealt with enterprise customers and installed large PBXs and key systems for enterprise customers and small business. Not sure why but the union agreed in the current contract to allow FTs to bump systems techs. I don’t think systems techs are allowed to bump FTs. Seems to me they are trying to push systems techs out the door by allowing FTS to bump them. You should contact the union. It’s a good question.
Usually, the union concern is that of AT&T "downgrading" the work - handing the work to a lower paid title. If work was handed to one title in order to facilitate layoffs in another title that traditionally does the work, that could be grieved since a union's prime directive it to see to it that no one is treated "unfairly".
Ask your union rep because I don’t think this is a “law” as much as it’s in our contract. I’m not in the SE region or I’d check myself! Good question though and good catch because we all need to work!
if there are rules in place, so you can keep your job...then you should probably be looking for another job. well, either that, or try to find the same position in California. is it just me, or does every HR announcement, have an asterisk at the bottom that reads, "Does not apply to employees in CA"?
And this is why legacy union jobs are becoming irrelevant.