I know, many of us have not felt that unionizing was the way to go in the past, but clearly, VZ is playing by an entirely different set of rules than what we all had believed. If what UnionGuyInRI says is accurate (could you please repost your comment here so its easier to find?) then don't you think we should at least consider it? These layoffs aren't over. I was not let go, but I am in no means comfortable. There is no loyalty here, our job security clearly has nothing to do with performance (sure in some cases, but this was and will continue to be a bloodbath.). I personally HATE this feeling of powerlessness,. No, unions aren't perfect, they don't necessarily guarantee that you'll always be taken care of, but at least we would we would have more than just ourselves to advocate for our positions. Hell, we don't even have the opportunity to advocate for ourselves right now, we are just handed a box and escorted out. It's chaos, and it will keep happening. I don't want to regret not taking action if we can. How will getting laid off affect YOU? How long can you go without s paycheck? THIS IS ABOUT OUR SURVIVAL. If we can stop these f**kers in their tracks, even if it only ends up being temporary, don't you at least want them to know that they can't call ALL the shots? We deserve more respect than this.
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In response to the poster who inquired as to where the Verizon Wireless workers are unionized, The field techs who cover NY Metro, 5 boroughs of NYC, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam & Long Island are Members of CWA. Also, VZW retail workers in Brooklyn NY & Everett Mass. are currently negotiating a contract. None of us were affected by the layoffs. It's time to stand together against greed.
Interesting conversation here with some good points. I grew up union and even worked in the IBEW for a while, including being a Shop Steward. In this day and age, the union, in particular the IBEW and CWA are not what they once were. I remember negotiations for the call centers I was in and they were rational, fair, with both sides looking for the right balance between what was best for the employee and how the company can continue to drive down costs and maintain/increase profits. Nowadays, it's a pure money grab. Never forget that unions are a business. Without revenue, such as dues, they cannot exist. And revenues have been on a massive decline over the past 20 years. Thus the drive to constantly "recruit". And I have also learned the hard way that there is no more protection for your job than anything else that exists in the corporate structure. A bunch of dear friends, 20+ years with the IBEW, all laid off, along side the guys that had 2 years with them. The demands of the union, which never made it into the hands of the actual employees, forced the hands of that company and layoffs occurred. Unions cannot prevent layoffs. There were ten years of "promises" that were negotiated, but never impacted the employee to the positive. It is a false sense of security. So there is no benefit, like there once was 30 years ago, with a union. Unions need to change their approach and their model in order to actually benefit their members before folks will sign up. Again, I grew up union, and believe in the benefits that a union can provide in certain environments. Not in Telecom, or customer service, sales etc....it just doesn't work and unfortunately does more harm than good.
One of the reasons the landline side of the business has had trouble is because its costs are out of line with what the market will support. That was fine when there was no alternative to copper telephone, but now there's competition from the cable and wireless guys.
So now we have people sitting around in 411 call centers reading magazines because there's nothing for them to do, and they can't be fired. But their salaries and benefits drag down the company for the rest of the workers.
Unions are fine so long as a) there's no competition, and b) nothing EVER changes. Since a) and b) are not true, unions end up costing all workers their jobs. Google and Apple are not unionized. How are they doing?
Screw the union. My father worked his hands to the none as a plumber and he refused to be unionized. All they did is take money and protect the lazy. Just like land line. I see those idiots at diners daily doing NOTHING! Unions and Democrats destroyed the USA.
What workers have lost sight of in many cases in this country with this "me first" culture, is that your labor is your stock in trade. When you allow your employer to devalue you, you're telling them that there is no limit to the depths they can sink to in order to "maximize profits" by taking food from your family's table...
"The only effective answer to organized greed is organized labor." Thomas Donahue
As i understand, there was already a section. Of wireless that successfully unionized. II can't remember which state. Butpeople, you need to start Google searching and contacting your local union. It's not difficult and it can only benefit YOU. The old saying is SO true...if the union is such a horrible thing or you as an employee why does the company do EVERYTHING in their power to prevent you from unionizing. As a union worker its SO obvious how important it is and so baffling how anyone can view it as bad, but I don't have a company brainwashing me and scaring me away from it. Please contact any union and I'm certain they will help you find the local union you need to be in contact with.
RE:Anon188212... That's your (understandable) fear talking... Given the choice, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. If you're in constant fear of losing your job anyway, you might as well stand tall and fight back. Yes, there are risks that companies will violate the law and attempt to terminate people who try to organize your workforce.But as an organizer myself, I assure, the risks are FAR outweighed by the benefits you reap telling these pigs you're not afraid.
The problem is, if anyone above you in your office catches wind that you're talking to the union you will be the next one let go. Sure, sure, there are laws protecting you from retaliation. There are also laws protecting people over 40 and FMLA and look how well those laws are protecting the workers right now. They aren't. As much as I think the workers uniting and unionizing would help in the long run I would never advise my SO to start talking to the union right now. That would be a one way ticket to unemployment.
I am a union organizer for the IBEW in RI, and while I know that many people have a negative view of unions for some of the reasons mentioned here, the benefits FAR outweigh the drawbacks. I've seen some here make reference to being judged "on their merits" performance, etc, but he fact of the matter is, without an employment contract defining the conditions of your employment, you are still an employee at will, subject to termination without cause. Regardless of how well you may perform week to week, or month to month, if your boss decides they don't like you, they can take your livelihood, and you have no recourse.
For those who are anti Union, why do you think that CEO's demand employment contracts for themselves with guaranteed pay increases, (not merit based), and massive compensation packages and golden parachutes? (Remember, "pension" is a dirty word.)
Protect yourselves, stand together, join a union. Even in states with terrible "right to work" (for less) laws, if the workers stand together with the union, the company has to listen. They have to bargain with you.
First step, contact your local IBEW or CWA office to get the ball moving. The quicker you stand together and sign cards, the faster you send the message to these corporate fat cats that you will not have your livelihoods taken from you without a fight. Verizon makes a BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH in net profits, all while paying almost zero in federal taxes and paying $250mil in salaries to their top execs. We as workers, DESERVE a fair shake, and a fair share of the profits that we toil to earn.
I agree 100%, hunger games. You are dead on. I'm telling you, guys, I can't just NOT do anything and WAIT for the axe to fall. This isn't just talk, or at least, I don't WANT it to be just talk. Why wouldn't we fight? I don't want to make anybody's situation worse, and I realize we all have very different perspectives, but seriously, how long are we going to just watch this happen? Why COULDN'T we contact the union?
School districts have been trying to push out veteran (more expensive) teachers for years. The only time they FAIL at "trimming the fat" is when the union gets involved.
What are the rules for organizing non-supervisory management? I'm a Telecom "level 6"....one of MANY that are sick and tired of being treated like property!
Personally, I have over 25 years, missed the kids events, worked ridiculous hours, not eligible for OT, etc. etc. The latest is forcing relocations for people who are currently doing the job but not sitting in the right "center of excellence". That's a PR way of laying people off. The reality is those are forced RIFs. And now the nonsense of Tami Erwin's edict of having to physically report to the office daily. Some of these management folks have worked from home for years. Some had their offices taken from then and were told to work remotely. Now we are forced into the awesome cubicle farms they're creating that afford no privacy. None of this trumps the constant threats of RIFs and being reassigned to jobs for which you have no skills, experience and did not seek.
What are the labor rules / laws for unions being able to organize folks that are management but have no direct reports?? If this can be done, I believe they could create a massive army on both sides (mgmt & hourly) to help stop this corporate greed and mid-management!!
I have some experience with utilizing the media to gain momentum in these kinds of situations. If we WERE to try and unionize, to get the ball rolling in order to throw a wrench into the machine (and maybe save our jobs), then you have to consider the VALUE of a story like to local and national media outlets. Think about it, right now, the story reads "Big layoffs from tech giant." Big deal, happens all the time. It's nothing more than a couple paragraphs, if that, in the papers, and maybe 45 seconds on TV. Now imagine how interested the media would be if the story read "Not so fast: Non-union Employees at one of the largest tech companies put the brakes on massive layoffs- by UNIONIZING." Local markets would jump on it, national markets would jump on it, and we would be getting the word out, strengthening our resolve and increasing our numbers/members.
Live to learn, we all deserve a second chance, please be kind with non union people, who knows you may be in their shoes some day!!
Seriously... as I learned from working previously for a non-union company.... they can fire you because they don't like the color of the pants you wore that day... nothing you can do about it. At least with the union, you have some protection and recourse. I know one old-timer (54 years) employee who has been fired and rehired 3 times... the union got his job back. Here is the link to the latest contract agreement between CWA and AT&T... we can only hope...
http://www.cwa3104.org/?pageID=pdf_handler.php&source_pdf=docs/Bargaining_2015/D3ATTSoutheastSummary2015TentativeAgreement.PDF
Here is the comment from UnionGuyinRI I'm referring to. I hope you don't mind that I am reposting it here.
187661, A651 is the exception rather than the rule. Good, smart Union people don't look at non Union people as the enemy, nor take pleasure when you're hurt. We see you as people who have yet to take the opportunity to organize and take advantage of the rights you have as American workers. All over this country, for the last 75 years, working people have been under attack. If you chart the decline of the middle class over that time period, it runs parallel to the decline in Union membership. What we really need to do, ALL of us, Union and non, is stop demonizing one another, and work together against who is our obvious common enemy: the ownership class who continue to chip away at every benefit we've fought for for no other reason than to line their own pockets. We have the power, all we have to do is use it. To those being slaughtered at Verizon wireless right now, I have one suggestion, contact your nearest CWA (Communication Workers of America) or IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) telephone division office and organize. If you were to all sign cards and vote to organize now, they'd immediately have to cease and desist all layoff actions until the company enters negotiations with the union to try to put together a contract. Do not ever think that the boss or the company is your friend. The only ones we can count on is each other. When workers unite, we can't be beaten, history proves that fact. Good luck everyone. Hang tough.". Thoughts?