I was offered a permanent job in IT today. Should I accept it or reject it ?
39 replies (most recent on top)
@1csi+1rZD3QH0. Yep, JEALOUS, ignorant, back stabbing, sabotaging baby sitters.
Be careful. You might get hired to "train" someone to do their job.
A job offer from WF is like a marriage proposal from Henry VIII.
Wells Fargo loves the spreadsheet -- as noted by technology@fsv+1rZD3QH0 - "most applications begin as spreadsheets." If given the choice of clinging to a spreadsheet or writing some code to automate, bet on the spreadsheet every time.
Definitely take it. Much room for growth.
“ Any job description with "Analytics" or "Data Management" or "Reporting" or IT Development will ALL BE OUTSOURCED TO INDIA and elsewhere where they can get an average joe for 1/4th of our cost”
First, the poster asked about IT. Those three jobs are typically NOT IT at Wells.
Next, analytics cost 40 cents on the dollar in India for a direct replacement IF they are as good as US. Many aren’t so the cost is higher. It’s still enough of a savings that the bosses think it’s worth moving more over.
Ummm...
"permanent job"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Reject it. You are more qualified for the role than the head of IT , TK.
Lots of good posts on this thread.
@zio+1rZWpUMw I see all of IT moving to India.
I was trying to figure out what potential warning signs I should have seen before joining Wells. What interview questions and analysis I should have done?
One of the things I didn't do was to examine the managers. The managers at Wells are not certified and experienced. I didn't ask basic questions like how are projects developed. Are there analysts who elicit requirements from end users? Are there architects who help integrate applications? What is the process? Scrum meetings? Product Owners?
Look at the job descriptions of other banks and compare them to Wells -- not just your job but your manager's. Let's take a look at Bank of America.
Required Skills:
PMP certification
5 plus years with program/change management in a technology environment
5 plus years’ Fulfillment, Service and Operations experience in a lending environment
Experience leading cross-functional project teams
Bachelor’s college degree required
Experience in creating business cases of high monetary value
Executive level presentation experience
Desired Skills:
Knowledge of project tracking tools preferred
Lean Six Sigma certification or Lean Agile certification a plus
Wholesale Credit business process knowledge
Consumer Small Business process knowledge
Global Loan, Lease or Trade knowledge in a commercial environment
Look at PMP (required) Lean Six Sigma certification(Desired) Lean Agile certification (Desired)
Compare this to Wells
Required Qualifications:
6+ years of Transactions and Processing experience, or equivalent demonstrated through one or a combination of the following: work experience, training, military experience, education
3+ years of Management experience
Desired Qualifications:
Prior experience in ABL (Asset Based Lending), Supply Chain Finance or Global Receivable Financing products.
6+ years financial services experience
Prior experience with product servicing on LoanIQ, CHOICE, LUCAS systems of record.
Prior Six Sigma, LEAN process simplification experience
Excellent verbal, written, and interpersonal communication skills
Ability to interact with all levels within the organization
Demonstrated ability to manage risk through identification of issues, root cause problem solving, and implementation of processes/controls
Demonstrated ability to manage managers and a large team across multiple locations
Experience leading teams through transformative change through effective coaching and communication
Notice no certifications required. Wells just requires "experience" in
Six Sigma, LEAN process simplification. Also there are a lot more "product owner" jobs at BAC than Wells. Are they more agile?
Lesson I learned after working at Wells. Look at the environment. See if your managers have certification. Otherwise they are just baby sitters.
It was the hostile working environment, nepotism, fudging of the year-end-reviews, and lack of talent or integrity from management. In the long run you end up worse off and they have a history of sc--wing customers and employees over-and-over. Do you really want to get a lawyer to have to protect yourself working here? Ultimately it's up to you, but unless you are friends with management or brought in by them - you're sc--wed. The pay is marginal if you have experience from other financial orgs. They take advantage of people and will do the same to you. Make it worth it is all. As bad as the economy may be, there are better pastures. Or, if you do get the role make the best of it and exit to a different firm within 6-8 months.
Run, Forrest, run. Backstabbing co-workers, insecure bosses, abuse, fiddling the Y/E review, etc. All your gains will be taken up by therapy &/or recovery time.
Nope. Unless you’re in India.
I am assuming you were offered here in US. Not in India. If in US, then use it to educate yourself because your job will eventually be outsourced to India. Any job description with "Analytics" or "Data Management" or "Reporting" or IT Development will ALL BE OUTSOURCED TO INDIA and elsewhere where they can get an average joe for 1/4th of our cost. And they can mechanically follow the instructions given to them to do the job. They will have few managers to oversee it here and the operations will be done in India. Sounds harsh but that is the fact. So if you have other offers, consider them as well. Best wishes.
As I said before the IT at WF is anti-IT. As @wwk+1rZD3QH0 teams are siloed. That is not the only thing that is siloed. The data and the applications are siloed. As I said before there are no traditional SDLC roles (architect, business analyst, coder, tester) at Wells. You can see this from the job descriptions. There are "developers" or engineers. And you have to do everything. You can train the "business execution consultants" to do business analyst duties. Hopefully, try and talk to a dba to make him/her an architect -- to see the big picture. Architects are MIA in the 15 projects over 10+ years.
Basically, most applications begin as spreadsheets. They get too big and have to interact with other systems. So someone stores them to SQL Server. And then you pull HR data from Oracle. The app is made by pulling all this stuff together. Silos don't talk to each other. Hopefully, your silo doesn't upset others.
It's a mess. Terrible place if you are new to IT. You will learn bad habits. You succeed in being bad here.
It is going to be interesting. I think they will get rid of all the architects (done?) , hire a consultant (or consultants) with a big AI banking model, and generate a mesh of service-oriented microservice apps that work on the bank's current "sources of record" set. I might be wrong. It's going to be interesting to watch.
It is NOT a good idea for you to join WF.
I would decline. They have been lowballing candidates lately. Declined my offer yesterday.
RUN!!!!
If you like spending most of the time shuffling paperwork and very little of the time you do technical work, then WF is the place for you.
I typically spend 40-45 hours a week in meetings, writing documentation, dealing with the horrible corrective action process. Teams are so siloed that much work can’t be done without engaging multiple other teams who often can’t be coordinated to get their tasks done within the same time frame.
A couple times a year, I’ll be able to actually sit down and focus solely on engineering work.
But the red tape at WF is at such a high level I have never seen before. The executives operate on a knee jerk reaction to everything. If some team you never heard of breaks something, all work comes to a grinding halt instead of focusing on how that team can avoid creating issues.
Remember when I said how the teams are siloed? Every time the executives bring work to a halt, it halts what the other teams are doing for you. So once they do get their work done, you better hope that you can get yours in before the next halt.
And these halts are happening more and more often.
Just some facts. Wells has laid off almost 30,000 people since 2020. In 2023 alone it was over 10,000 The CEO asked for another $billion for severances. Do you want to work for a company this this active thelayoff.com message board ?
Only you can decide based on your situation. If the pay is good and the work seems interesting, take it.
But be prepared for a whole lot of BS, endless meetings, some level of chaos from changes and layoffs.
I’m amazed we’re actually hiring people.
Depends on the group
If ur from chase and know Charlie, please come. This is only place u can do the same dirty things u did chase. Otherwise sorry , ur bad time started.
Yes, if you’re a masochist
Honey if you have other options take the other job. If this is the only option, take it but keep looking. As you can see through this board, WF is a shïtshow.
Run away!
Have you verified that this IT job is actually a technology job and not just a bait-and-switch legacy reporting role that may ruin your career? Would hate to see this situation happen to any other early career applicant.
Also, the comments about toxic and unethical culture are very true.
Depending on where you land there can be skills to learn early on in your career, but the culture is as toxic as financial services gets outside of consulting
If you're straight out of college- don't accept because you will learn nothing at WF. If you worked somewhere else for at least 10 years and could use an easy gig for a change - accept. Most of your time will be spent in meetings, and answering boring micromanagement asks.
Run and don’t look back!!!
I agree with @tzv+1rZD3QH0. Do not think that you will advance from the position that has been offered to you. Do not think that you will be sent to conferences, learn new technologies to employ them at Wells. Also, more of your control will come from India. They are going to increasingly be the architects and the model builders. Be aware that you will have many new managers... sometimes up to two in a year. Your 2 up may become your 3 up. You may have many pseudo-managers (scrum master, product owner, manager). as well.
Wells has taken everything bad out of agile, micromanagement, and not much good. Some call it wagile others agile.. but or agile..like.
Traditional development roles (architect, analysis, model, develop, test) do not exist at Wells. What I found is that the developer had to do everything. Then when it is "done" all the other people will claim credit. Wells is an anti-IT place.
In my 20+ years the net result is a company that appeals to seat fillers. If you aren't ambitious, will never rock the boat by thinking logically or unselfishly, and have no expectations of the company to help improve yourself, this is the place for you.
Run away as fast as possible.
You have no long-term future unless you are in India.
(What, you core location folks think you are safe? Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)
Why don’t you just read through the posts on this board and make your own conclusions
Yes, we are fully bought in on Agile and the red tape thrust upon us is wonderful. Hope you enjoy audits for virtually every process / documentation to accomplish the simplest tasks.
Run. Wellsfargo has no IT. It is bunch of jokers working with calculators
Make sure they pay you the max since you will have to go into an office.
Run!
You do what you need to do to provide for yourself and your family. I’m in IT at a non core location and cannot wait to be displaced. The place ain’t what it used to be. I would just leave but I’m close to retirement and have close to a year of severance so I’m waiting for the inevitable.