Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

@1oql+1llJDbc2 Sounds like you got lucky with competent help. Too bad most of them are falling into the same track most onshore people are in. It’s all math though. If I put in 25% more effort what do I get for it? Certainly not 25% more recognition and comp so why bother?

Offshore beats US with a "no questions asked" mentality for tasks in the queue. It's lean, mean and sloppy, no drama. Offshore muscles through to some sort of conclusion no matter the history, no matter the headaches involved. Managers love this, quality of output aside. Also there is the pay scale thing, labor costs have to be lower offshore.

US beats offshore in communication, handling things off script, more nimble in troubleshooting during change windows and better at taking calculated risks to avoid delays. US is also better at context, recalling past events and connecting dots. US can read the entire story, modify it, explain it and prepare for the sequel.

US will have a lower 'completed' task count near term yet long term will create better processes, alert others of potential risks in advance, advocate on behalf. WF has never been good about acknowledging those who are good at this, they don't analyze deep enough to understand the effective output of a worker.

Given the state of where things are at, it looks like WF wants few decision makers who rely on a lot of offshore task workers.

C'mon, Chucky Shart wants you to do the needful. Seriously though, WF relies more on offshore "help" because they have either chased off anyone with real talent or those people are so backlogged in "sensitivity training" or other feel-good BS that they can't get anything done. Never had an offshore tech or developer deliver a product that wasn't full of bugs or completely broken.

Offshore team in my department is very competitive . Many, key team members in the US left the team and their replacements are not good enough . So, there is huge dependency on offshore team in our case.

Right on with the initiative comment, but exercise caution about mentioning this and note that when they do begin acting where they did not previously, you may end up on the list as a consequence.

The team I am on is over 1/3 Indian. All of them are capable.

BUT and this is huge, all but one has any sort of initiative. The project we have has a tight deadline to achieve a lot of work. There are a lot of moving pieces so it requires doing tasks out of order to keep the project moving.

Only one of them is capable of this. The rest end up doing nothing until all the dependencies are perfectly lined up according to plan.

I don't know if it is cultural or what that they cannot handle anything that is off script. But it is causing a mad scramble to cover for them to meet our deadline.

We can't just point the blame at them for project failure. The whole team is accountable for the deadline.

I'd easily trade 4-5 Indian workers to get one American worker.

Wells could be in serious trouble if any regulatory issue from India occurs. When the the size and scope of our presence there surfaces, another harsh penalty is almost certain.

Regarding procedures and not making decisions or able to think for themselves. This WAS the initial plan for them. WF wanted a cost effective way to portion out small bits of US work that could be done for cents on the dollar.
That was the design. They don’t train them on anything except that tiny piece of the overall process and are mandated to only follow what’s written in procedures and to NOT make any decisions. No understanding of up or downstream.

Now and you will see this if you pay attention — they are responsible to make real decisions, provide risk oversight ON the US teams etc. AND somehow WF has managed to convince or shelter this significant shift from regulatory agencies. Or they know and don’t care about saving American jobs either.

I can’t understand them
Their accent is very heavy at least give an option of English representative. It’s not fair to outsource jobs to other countries. Wells is an American brand. Keep it that way

@gsh+1llJDbc2 "I never got the feeling they have the sense of ownership or responsibility that I had. Everything was half-a*ed." This right here is the problem. From my experience working with offshore teams across several companies there is just zero ownership for the work. They have to be told step by step, line by line everything they need to do. Once I've put all of that together, i.e., lengthy, overly detailed instructions, I realize I could have done it myself in half the time producing twice the quality product. I have been asked to offload some parts of my projects to the India team multiple times with the same end result - I redo the work or do the work that they never completed in the first place. What the fck are we paying them for? Useless and incapable to thinking for themselves. The DON'T CARE.

Red tape and procedure comments are spot on…. Nearly impossible to make changes.

Plus our offshore teammates follow everything to the letter of the law rather than the spirit, like robots.

During late night installs, many instances of incompetence and sticking to made up rules have created a disaster.

I agree with most posts, they require guidance for almost every single task assigned

They provide a lot of value. They pay them about 10% of what you make. The rest doesn't matter.

Much of our business understanding is based on culture. It is almost impossible to teach someone another culture without immersing them in that culture. We had issues understanding questions from a Japanese client once. The questions didn’t make sense until you understood the unspoken culture.

One time I was getting a patch upgraded to PROD and off-shore team was ready to install it in BCP. I provided all the correct server names, game plan, etc. and I was on a conference call late at night US time arguing with the off-shore lead. It was not a good experience.

I'm sure there are plenty competent individuals in off-shore teams, but I never got the feeling they have the sense of ownership or responsibility that I had. Everything was half-a**ed.

Even calling to get your LAN password reset. I was on hold, call got dropped twice. It ended up taking a half-hour of my time. There is no excuse for this poor level of service.

@bhw+1llJDbc2 You are correct, there are loads of top heavy groups who have no way to show value unless they are constantly making changes and adding layers of red tape. The result is this inefficient spiderweb of procedures that is impossible to navigate.

And let’s throw “procedures” into the mix as well. They harped on following them so much that now people are afraid to make common sense decisions. If it isn’t spelled out in a procedure (which still takes forever to find, thanks ORA) you might as well just tell the customer to take a hike. This company now is at the same level as working for the federal government. Red tape galore.

OP - you're a chump. Doing the work of the WFI team.
Let them fail and get the beatings they deserve

Totally agree. Ours are terrible and terrible to work with. They cannot and will not think for themselves.

Ditto. I hate having to go back and spend hours correcting a mistake because some of shore person failed to ask questions, not only because of communication difficulties but because they don't understand the process, the business or even the United States in general. Middle managers, in almost all cases recent hires, don't understand the processes either, so they think all of this can be reduced to a series of questions.

They are good positive people and I enjoy working with them, but the management oversight of offshore operations is a tremendous train wreck.

They are given different procedures and policies than the on shore teams and it has led to non-stop issues.

This blame belongs on the on-shore executives for their lazy attempt at cost cutting.

Why are you working late to cover anyone? You're enabling any kind of isht situation you're in. Work your hours and call it. If anyone questions just have your ducks in a row so your metrics are on point.

Job security for you.

If they were good, you'd already be gone. LOL

At one point, WF could hire 3 of them vs 1 US person. Not sure if the salary ratio is still the same.

They work in beautiful buildings - nothing like we have in the US except maybe Hudson Yards. They get a crazy amount of time off, have finally slimmed down on their holiday allotment AND can WFH for smog, childcare issues etc… Just yesterday Philippines announced today a holiday off for them (for a day that none of them actually celebrate).

You won’t be fixing their work for long, because they will be doing it all on their own soon and you/me/many will be replaced by them. Started out hiring there in easy check box roles but it has been significantly shifting decision making roles there. Think risk oversight, loan officer, etc. Yes - that HAS been in the works for quite some time now working through legal hoops and regulatory sniff tests.

Oooh but their pie charts and power point decks and talk is all a good game. Execs faces light up over that BS. And the “perk” of traveling there once a year to have to have their bu-t kissed while they check in and “see” their team in person.

Sickening.

You get what you pay for