They getting many cuts?
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@js
Says the person who does not fully understand the costs associated with EPC.
That sounds good on a slide, but it ignores the total installed cost and execution risk.
External E&C can be useful for peaks, specialty work, and overflow, but pretending it automatically creates “real profit” is oversimplified. Internal TES carries site knowledgeww, standards knowledge, operating history, construction lessons learned, safety expectations, and the ability to keep projects moving without re-teaching every job from scratch.
This sounds like a proposal-stage view of EPC work, not a real execution view.
The EPC may look cheaper up front, then the company gets hammered with RFIs, change orders, field verification, rework, “not in scope” items, and construction support charges. Any savings can disappear quickly once execution starts.
Internal engineering is not just a drawing factory. It is the owner’s protection against bad scope, bad constructability, bad standards application, and avoidable field cost.
Cut too deep and you do not eliminate cost. You hand the EPC more leverage and move the cost somewhere else. Show me the epc billable rate and hours on a comparable job and TES Will win every single time. CEC charge rate is?$
This sounds clue less propaganda machine posting on an open site in hopes of twisting the outcome .
Show the epc charge rate
Show the TES charge rate , factor in indias charge rate .
There’s no easy way out here this is just another stunt for investors. TES is by no means bloated like it was 5-8 years ago. The numbers they push out know would blow your mind . Dow will learn and ask those same employees to come back if they are available . This is not just a quick money grab this is a bad decision Dow may not recover from long term . The asylum is running things evidently. Good luck with that !
@m1 it will look profitable short term. Long term i do not see recovery. The silicon side has been decimated from an engineering knowledge. That is a specialty chemical business not comodity. You need the expertise of silicon to do the front end work since most of the information is internal knowledge that consulting firms do not have. Then need the expertise the manage a consulting firm through detailed design.
Best thing for midland silicon business is to sell it off to who knows speciaty chemicals and hire back many of those let go.
@e2 wow I hate to take days off too in times like this. Man I gave 9 years to this place almost ten years. I looking for an exit to something else . The new administration will make changes to make HER company look profitable to ensure she make an impact at Dow !
Can TES
@fs The indians require too much hand holding and work by operations. That cost is hidden.
@fs Impossible for an internal engineering center to make company income statement profit for internal work. That’s just an internal shell game. Project costs run much higher than they should, ops gets the shaftarooni on the excess costs and that goes inflates product cost. Charge out rates and efficiency much better going external. Cut TES, use external E&C, and there will be money left over via the difference….real profit. This company is 20 years behind in its use of external E&C firms.
What is your context for “cheaper to use outside engineering” when Dow has shifted a ton of workload to Chennai and actually makes money from the engineering center they own there ? Sounds like propaganda unless you have some hard numbers which I know you do not! Take a look at billable rates and change orders? Better get your scope definition in order which is will not happen. TES does everything for the inexperienced reps shuffling work out in more cases than not. What a joke! There’s a lot of fake news on this site because of the clueless. You have no idea , are there weak teams ? Yep, but not that I’ve seen .
Definitely an area that needs reducing.
It was always expensive to complete projects. Much better to complete through outside E & C firms.
Are they eliminating TES in midland? Hearing of people being let go. Not sure what i will walk into when returning from vacation. This su-ks.
@OP Yes, and it su-ks