Thread regarding AT&T layoffs

sounds about right for att

"All new to the title craft aren’t receiving proper training and OJT doesn’t work anymore because there aren’t enough properly trained techs within most groups left to teach. "
A few years ago in the SE management decided that 4wall ETs don't need to know anything but how to change cards and be someone else's "hands". The ET position was d-mbed down even more then. Maybe the goal is to have someone in india tell us what to do. Some of the older ETs they could do everything.

I worked SSIM, DLC, CO tech, FT and Service Tech in the south east. What surprised me was one manager that said his experience was as an inside wire SME. He couldn’t carry a ladder because of weak knees and shoulders and his only craft position was as a service/pots installer. He would call and want to know about jobs that I didn’t work on. I would ask if he could read an osslog or word doc and he would get angry and threaten discipline. Greg didn’t last long as an SSIM manager. I remember getting a new manager every few months. That could be part if the problem.

I for one will help anyone that is trying. No one is self-made, everyone has had help along the way, either by peers or all the formal training classes they used to send us to. You can’t learn this overnight through osmosis. Just because someone takes longer to be competent doesn’t mean they aren’t motivated to succeed, it isn’t their fault the company won’t do the right thing. So Bah humbug to all the grinches!

Today we are at the top but things change and tomorrow we could be bumped, surplussed to a new title or position or have some medical condition and need help. Karma and reap what you sow is real. I’ve seen it happen many times in my career. I was taught kindness and helpfulness are good traits, I choose to pass it forward and am much happier in my life for it.

im to the point im not helping anyone any more. if they cant do the job, then theyll hang themself eventually. a lot of outside techs took CO and System tech jobs thinking that it is easy and they can skate or lay the work off on someone else. HR shouldnt have d-mbed the tests down or make testing exempt for certain titles. they are finding out the hard way those lies that middle managers have told them for years in that CO tech work is easy and they are expendable. most of the tech work is self taught and (there are plenty of resources available) to self teach. if you havent learned the job in 6 months then you probably wont be a "great" technician. it takes 3-5 years to become a "good" technician.

as far as the centers and nokia, i dont call them, no need to really.

another thing ATT really needs to watch is this: when you let go all of the great ET's who is going to be there when the next disaster strikes?

I just spoke with one of 12 left in the TDM Switch group from NC. They and 12 others in Atlanta have been surplussed this coming quarter so expect even more waiting and no help from outsourced jobs. There aren’t enough Nokia SME’s to go around.

This is the New AT&T. No training, what SME's we had left are outsourced to some Dalit in India making 2 dollars an hour. I came to work this morning with a high priority ticket for a circuit down, waited 30 minutes on hold to see if could help clear the trouble. No answer. I got paid for a full day's work. My level of give a phuck diminishes every day, and brother, let me tell you this. I sleep better every night knowing "Leadership" is clueless.

Vitriol (bitter) was the correct word for the OP’s feeling when they were “sickened” by one group being targeted to be walked out the door as though they are all perfect and no slackers. Then the other group is painted with a broad brush of being less than, d-mb as a rock or just plain lazy. There are exceptions to the rule for all because as a craft person I’m as equally frustrated by supposedly SME’s that are incompetent and only have to be expert on the one system I’ve called them about. I’m expected to be competent on dozens of systems without little to no training.

All new to the title craft aren’t receiving proper training and OJT doesn’t work anymore because there aren’t enough properly trained techs within most groups left to teach. They also don’t have the time while trying to run around and make their metrics/tickets too.

We need to work together and solve the issues why there are some supposedly lazy or incompetent. I know from experience lack of training is one of the major roadblocks. Of course there are the few slackers in any org, management and craft, they should be weeded out. Let’s all work together and be the squeaky wheel to get the company to do some proper training, it would greatly benefit the company and employees. After training and a trial period if the person continues to be lazy or incompetent then start documentation until it’s either corrected or they are moved on to another position if available or terminated.

Looks like someone decided to utilize a dictionary in the last response. “Vitriol” insinuates the OP is being somewhat cruel or bitter with there comments and I don’t think that’s the case. “Disbelief” seems appropriate. Whether you agree with that or not is your choice. My personal opinion is that we should expect a lot from folks making $80,000-$100,000/yr in compensation. We should expect more (A very quantifiable amount) from people making $100,000-$150,000/yr and a substantial amount from those making beyond that salary at this company. Regardless of whether they are management or craft. I thing what the OP is trying to point out is that we have some individuals (probably more than a few) who are not even able to process or perform things at a fundamental technical level who are simply being paid ridiculous amounts of money to essentially sit around performing mundane and/or basic tasks.

To the original poster, please don’t paint with such a broad brush. Your vitriol is misplaced, you shouldn’t blame the Union employee, it’s upper management that is making the call to surplus . As previously mentioned a few times, craft employees aren’t getting any formal training on the network or systems. It’s OJT and there are still so many legacy systems that one is unable to see another peer even work on during the 6 months training period. The CO’s with a few exceptions are vacant and I rarely see or even talk to another peer because everyone is driving between so many locations. I remember when these offices were filled with ET’s and Frame attendants.

I want to be beyond just competent and try very hard to be successful in my job. New to the 4-wall CO ET title, I’m doing the best I can with the 6 months of OJT I was given. I’ve asked my management multiple times for formal training on these systems and and have been told there isn’t any available at this time. The only exception is some online PLE courses that are very vague and high level on most subjects, they aren’t in-depth or very detailed. Unable to find any training on some systems. They aren’t sending anyone to 5ess switch training or any other TDM system anymore but one is expected to try and work on it.

I’ve a 2 year electronics degree with a 4.0 and passed all the test both 25 years ago and once again recently. I am very skilled and was a mentor/trainer to many in my previous title but was ready for a change due to the work-life balance and toxic atmosphere that became untenable to stay. I can’t speak for all but most of my peers are hard working and want to learn. I think we can all agree that there are a few exceptions in any position, craft or management. The “company” is the issue that is putting people in a position to fail.

"You only get around 35 mins to close a trouble ticket. If you need help from a tester you will wait atleast 20 minutes before they pick up. You better make your metrics or you will go on the performance plan. "
I don't think that this is applicable anymore.
The msoc coaches for the co techs have been fired, and I applaud that.

((The msoc coaches for the co techs have been fired, and I applaud that. ))

The most whiny a-s useless techs somehow found themselves into first line management position to be a "MSOC coach", only to get their a-s fired a few months later. Bye. Sorry about your luck. Funny how the company sheds dead weight.

"You only get around 35 mins to close a trouble ticket. If you need help from a tester you will wait atleast 20 minutes before they pick up. You better make your metrics or you will go on the performance plan. "
I don't think that this is applicable anymore.
The msoc coaches for the co techs have been fired, and I applaud that.

There is no training. As a co tech there are no coworkers around that can help you either. You only get around 35 mins to close a trouble ticket. If you need help from a tester you will wait atleast 20 minutes before they pick up. You better make your metrics or you will go on the performance plan. You work on equipment nobody knows about including your supervisor.

The company would rather teach you about asbestos than how to do your job.

This the absolute truth. There Is NO training for the technicians that support the network. For way too long AT&T has enjoyed the fact that training has been peer to peer. When I say enjoyed I mean AT&T didn't have to spend any money. Some years ago several experienced techs would mentor the new techs to get them up to speed. This environment does not exist anymore. I have five Central offices. Guess what? I'm the only one who darkens the doorstep of those places. I have had to learn this network from bits and pieces and your damn right if someone ask me a question I will do my best to lessen their burden because I understand what AT&T is, a Phucking Joke. With the training provided by AT&T, I can tell you ALL about regulations regarding batteries, fuel leaks and what to do if a regulator comes knocking. I know what asbestos looks like. I have to take courses to avoid "Social Engineering" ( I don't see anyone, I don't talk to anyone!) Need help? Put in a ticket. I also know due to AT&T training I should keep costumers records confidential. No chit. The "training" that AT&T provides is only to cover legalities. In addition, if AT&T wants me to clear a trouble ticket within 35 minutes, might want to make sure I'm not 45 minutes away in another office.

Another bu-t hurt manager that thinks they move the company forward. Craft always has been and always will be the driving force that makes the company sustainable.

Yep, keep "splicing fiber to no where" and see how soon you realize your position is pointless.

Another bu-t hurt manager that thinks they move the company forward. Craft always has been and always will be the driving force that makes the company sustainable.

Nope. The biggest mistake was making Randall Stephenson CEO. The second biggest mistake was making John Stankey CEO.

By allowing AT&T to unionize will go down in history as the biggest mistake ever made.

There is no training. As a co tech there are no coworkers around that can help you either. You only get around 35 mins to close a trouble ticket. If you need help from a tester you will wait atleast 20 minutes before they pick up. You better make your metrics or you will go on the performance plan. You work on equipment nobody knows about including your supervisor.

The company would rather teach you about asbestos than how to do your job.

Less desktops in COs
Means
Less Splicers in COs

Someone further down the line got it correct. If you’re a management person that is unhappy with that 30 year lazy and inept bargained for person, look in the mirror because it’s your fault.

Lazy managers do not properly document poor performance, because it’s difficult and uncomfortable to do so. Easier just to go along and get along. This ultimately leads to those under achievers and poor performers skating along for decades unchecked.

It’s not a management versus union thing. There are competent and incompetent people in all job titles.

Remember something about Unions and Management. While Unions will make it look like they are at odds with Management and will bluster through negotiations, at the end of the day, the Union Management and Owner Management sign a contract, sit down, and eat steaks and drink champagne together. Two sides of the same coin. Very similar to the Congress of the United States. Don't hate on the Union employees. Don't hate on Management employees. They love it when you do that, because it takes attention off of their inadequacies.

Don't blame the unions for the company's position! T agrees to the union demands before it signs the 4 year contracts every time. There's a lot of verbiage in the contracts that spells out what the company is supposed to be doing for the union members, but I've been with T for 4 decades and I can tell you that aside from the pay and benefits, the rest never happens. There's no formal training, only CBT which is difficult to get through and doesn't sink in. When grievances are filed, they fall through the cracks and rarely make their way through the proper channels after leaving the union hands.

Some of these responses are interesting……

1. “HR should make testing harder for union represented jobs”. You do realize that’s a partnership with the union right? The company can’t just implement whatever testing thresholds they want. If they did, the testing would be much more in depth, the pass rate would drop substantially and the union would complain that the company is being unfair.

2. I wouldn’t get hung up on the “Systems” part. I think the OP was using that as an example. Could also apply to most other Group 1 or “Top” craft titles in the union.

3. “It’s managements fault for not documenting and firing bad employees”. Yes, I’m sure you have extensive experience with this, LOL. I’ve got a novel idea, how about the union take some ownership and responsibility and stop protecting worthless employees (oops, sorry…”Members”). If you had any clue what you were talking about, you’d know how difficult it is to separate a union represented employee involuntarily unless the COBC is breached.

4. “If the company trained people properly, this wouldn’t be an issue”. I agree, formal instructor led training for craft titles is but a shell of what it used to be, but to be honest, much of that was simply about checking boxes with a curriculum. Most union employees that attend company provided instructor led training do not absorb it because there is no buy-in or title retention responsibility tied to it. It’s simply a waste of time for most, although some learners take it seriously and walk away with additional knowledge that they will use to enhance their skillset and capabilities. You can imagine the significant cost incurred by the company for all that training can’t you? It would easier to just implement desired/required skills and education during the hiring process to weed out those candidates that are unqualified, but the union would never agree to that which is why the pathetic testing standards are in place today.

I agree the company is eliminating very talented people but don’t begrudge the union for it. If anything , it’s further proof of why unions are needed: to protect workers from companies like AT&T. All one has to do is look at how management personnel are treated while the c-suite pays itself millions for running the company into the ground. Then they lay off life-long dedicated loyal employees and give themselves a pat on the back and a bigger bonus for making the cuts. Your outrage should be directed at Stephenson, Stankey and the board. Not the union or its members. Even if every tech was making 200k a year ; that would still be a pittance compared to what the board is raking in.

I’m quite content with no overtime making exactly what I’m supposed to for the year. The OT is available, but I like working part time for a full time paycheck. Work smarter, not harder or longer!

Dam. Some of you can really type a lot.

human resources is partly to blame for making the tests to easy for the titles, allowing persons to cheat on those tests, and giving persons a pass to fill a quota.

OP…what a du----s.

The technicians you bi--h about know the outside plant like the back of their hand. They are leaving. We have Comm techs that know the TDM network leaving every hour. Stankey wants these networks turned down. Guess what? Stankey doesn't get what he wants. You complain that the techs don't know a router from a switch. I wonder where the failure is?? Could it not be in the training from "leadership"?
Now go forth and dedicate yourself to one technology, (IP) be good at it too. Meanwhile the rest of the workforce will do their best supporting 40 years of telecomm technology with bullchit support.

Go to the freezer, take out the box. Fvck dat cssmer…Now pay me, callout double time. Biznatch.

One minor correction…as a CWA represented technician I’ve been pulling in at least $130k for the last ten years for doing very little. It’s a sweet deal and I’m gonna milk this stinkey old cow until the cows come home. Heh-heh-heh.

Union should like a lawyer or a panel of experts you hire every 4 years to negotiate the contract so the company doesn’t F or bend the rules, then done. Union create a lot of lazy people and the management hands are tight in most cases. Not talking about your 2nd level throwing you under the bus to save his face and not escalate to the next level.

Every large company has its pockets of unskilled, unmotivated slackers that seem to survive layoff after layoff for decades. This round of layoffs will be no different. Many solid contributors will get purged and those that attempt to pick-up the workload will fail because there are so few skilled left. Good news is, ATT doesn't care what the operational impacts are to its layoffs. Never has, not once.

It will continue down the road of "demographic transformation" per Stankey with no regard to how the customers are impacted. It's like opening another bottle of champagne on the main deck as the Titanic cracks in-half. Welcome to Regulated Monopoly dystopia.

For OP
One of the largest issues, is upper management MUST buy into firing an employee. The 1st line must do all the documentation, 2nd line has to agree, then the next in the chain has to approve, and that is where I've seen issues. That now 2nd removed manager, often won't allow the firing or discipline that could lead to it.

I worked for a 2nd line, and this ladies docs were more crisp than anyones. I would talk to her, and she would flip thru her notes and say,
No, on this day, you said blah blah, so why are you telling me blah blah today?
Her notes were spectacular, her recollection was just as good, and as you can tell, she could find anything.

She and a couple of her workers had years long disagreements. She went up and had the documentation to get these two workers fired.

The end for one of them, not going into specifics, but the two employees did something that caught attention of the entire floor, that action was aimed directly at the my 2nd line.
I'm not sure what they did was an offense that could lead to termination, although could be construed as harassment.
All the same, one of the employees was shortly lead down the plank and was fired. The other somehow survived, leading me to conclude, the actual offense wasn't fireable, but documentation that my 2nd line had, was all the ammunition that was needed.
The employee was a current union rep, but that didn't protect the employee as that employee was never to be seen again

nearly 6 figures? I know a tech that was already at $149k this year and that was back in early November! Lots of OT and they can easily make far more!

So what you’re saying OP is that management is useless?

Awwwwww. I'm lol'n.

I can speak a little to this. Im a systems tech of almost 30 years. I have always been a systems tech and cut my teeth on old legacy PBXs like Nortel option 81s. I know what you are saying is true to a certain extent.There’s two things at play here.

The first is , I do have too many co-workers who are lazy and have spent their careers not learning how to do their job, instead cherry picking tickets and hiding from real work all day long. They are the ones who rely on guys like me to step up and get the jobs done. Early in my career I used to blame the union too, thinking that they protect those dirt bags. And to an extent they do. However , what I’ve come to realize over my career is that the real fault actually lies with management. There IS a system in place to properly document and write up a tech who’s not performing his job. However , most 1st line managers I’ve known just don’t want to take the time it requires and they don’t want to deal with the paperwork or the union meetings. If a manager properly documents a tech , he can have him fired. The problem is rarely are things documented properly. If not , the union will win those battles for the tech. So you end up with guys here with 40 years who get away with mu---r. Trust me , I’ve complained about fellow techs who are not doing their job to management more times than I can remember. Management almost always does nothing about it. I don’t even really blame the 1st level managers because they already have a lot on their plate and don’t have time to tail or chase down every tech. If you are a PM, and you are unhappy with a systems techs work , you should be emailing the 1st level and cc’ing the second level. Document document document.

The 2nd issue at play here is that many systems techs today aren’t real systems techs. What I mean by that is that , at least here in the southeast , the union and AT&T agreed to allow digital techs to bump systems techs , starting in 2015 I believe. So now you a bunch of these guys who have taken the title but management is not getting them trained. They don’t have to prove any level of knowledge or take a test that pertains specifically to systems techs title. They just have to have more seniority and already have been a digital tech. They usually don’t have any pc skills or networking skills whatsoever. Some do but it’s more common for them not to. Again , it’s up to management to make sure they are competent. When they bump into the title , they are supposed to have 6 months to prove their competency. They are on probation that 6 months. I’ve never seen one held to that standard. That’s not the union’s fault. That is managements once again. Hope my perspective helps.

I work around Comm Techs or you can call them NTECs
Some are very good
Some aren’t even qualified for weekend duty
You can blame the Union that help them to pass the test
You could try to blame management for letting those be unqualified
But again the Union protects them
I know one person, that has been a Comm Tech for 25 years and can NOT read a TIRKs Doc
I knew one that did nothing but disconnects
The paperwork portion, never pulled the jumpers
Oh Well the wheels keep going round and round
At 50 bucks an hour