I know I should be glad to have a job, but I'm so burnt out and miserable. The people who got the package might have gotten the better deal. It's rough staying here.
34 replies (most recent on top)
@qq I agree that investing consistently (and preferably early in career) is key, those of us who are of age who lived through what you posted also had SAS contributing 15% of salary every year as profit share for a really long time. That makes a huge difference. And as you said shelter and food come first but according to statistica:
Looking at prices and income alone, houses have gradually become less affordable over the past 40 years. In 1985, the median household income in the United States was $23,620. The median price of new houses sold at the time was $84,300, or 3.6 times the median income. In 2000, the ratio of home prices to median income reached 4 for the first time and by 2023, it had climbed to 5.3. Between 1985 and 2023, the median household income in the U.S. grew 241 percent to $80,610 in nominal terms. The median price of houses sold in the country climbed 408 percent over the same period, reaching $428,600 in 2023.
Deal with the burnout while on the job. Take your vacation days. Use your perks. Do these things instead of quitting and BEFORE doing your assignments. Why? Best result: You find yourself refreshed and happy once again. Practically, if another early retirement package comes along, you'll be prepared. These packages are executed in a short amount of time. If you take one, you might not have enough time to take all the vacation that you're due, and you'll get only a fraction of what it's worth.
Where would we be without fifteen years of helicopter money? Printer go brrrrrr. Fundamentals go bye. Inflation go power curve.
@mw While I agree with you in sentiment I’m not so sure things are really different for young now.
You say you had tailwinds the whole way but that just isn’t the case.
- 1987 (if your were around for the Great Recession)
- Dot com bust
- lost decade
- 9/11 and subsequent years (tied to lost decade)
- Financial and real estate crisis
- COVID
That is a whole lot of tailwind.
The point is that despite all that investing consistently regardless of the fear was a winning strategy for those that did it.
Same thing for any other period in time including the Great Depression.
Now you have to get food and shelter first. But if you were above the basics living threshold then the opportunity has been there going way way back.
“ Nobody in this industry near retirement age should be struggling…”
Are you kidding? I can barely afford my beach house.
@q0 Then if you're getting money and benefits, do your fu--ing job and get on with it.
Ah, yes, if only...we didnt need money, and health insurance!
If you don't want to work at SAS, leave. It really is that simple.
@m7 It's true: we were lucky, born when we were.
I worked hard at SAS Institute; I earned my pay. But I also had the wind at my back to make a comfortable retirement.
Younger people are not so lucky. They must be more careful, and invest more wisely.
Nobody in this industry near retirement age should be struggling after the opportunity to ride the S&P from 200 to 7000. And the opportunities to get cheap real estate along the way
Rob Berger on YouTube evaluates several of these platforms. Boldin is a popular recommendation.
Started using it this year just to check it out. Can’t say it blows my mind, but I’m just starting.
I felt the same way for a long time. I decided to just retire early this year rather than waiting it out. I may die with cat food breath, but I am guessing I will die of natural or unnatural causes before then. Rolling the dice!
@kj ugh, subscription based, the modern world su-king you dry. Can you do anything for free?
https://www.maxifi.com/
This is the best calculator I have found and use.
@OP you are not alone. I, and many I know, are in the same boat. I just have to remind myself that I'm providing for my family (sole breadwinner) and many in the world would gladly trade my problems for theirs. Hang in there.
left almost a decade ago to work in the real world. mostly has been better mgmt, but huge levels of bullsh-t out here as well. just of a different nature. on retirement, also did what others said. saved ~20% of gross salary. didn't live frugally or extravagantly. didn't get rich from RSUs, but the profit sharing and bonuses and company match into 401(k) helped with relatively early retirement, coming up soon enough. hang in there, OP.
Ya'll are confusing as sh-t. Do whatever you want and live with the good or bad consequences of your actions. Or if bad consequences blame others.
I don’t know what to make of it because he describes his actions without considering that I took the same actions, walked the same path, and may be in a similar position.
I followed the formula @ef described, and am/have done what @eq described, almost word-for-word.
I thought the pet food thing was a myth. Then I met a retired lady in the store. Her breath smelled of cat food and her cart was loaded with it.
If I had it to do over again, I would have prepaid my taxes via the Roth 401k choice, and NOT invested in the company ESPP. Dot com bust ruined that.
@ef
I wrote that post and detailed what I did.
At least 5 people downvoted it. Why do you downvote my post for simply explaining what I did and offering a word of encouragement that it can still work for others?
@ey If you read the response by @eo then you’ll know exactly what to make of that.
Life is always going to throw curveballs. For some people it throws buildings at them
All of that is all the more reason for young (and procrastinators) to save/invest consistently from as early as possible.
If someone wants to work longer then needed the great. But do your best to not be the person who HAS to work longer than needed because you have no other choice.
“Don’t be an e0”.
Wow. Not sure what to make of that. Lots of assumptions there.
Let’s focus on the “work until 70” comment. Do you realize your level of arrogance?
I recently met a guy who was working at 68. He was well educated and had a nice government career, doing important work. Then something happened. His fluoride was removed, so to speak. An expert in his field, he was jobless and could no longer make ends meet, even with social security.
Those types of things happen at SAS, too. If it hasn’t happened to you, consider yourself extremely lucky.
Don’t worry about me. I’m the 3rd Little Pig. If I work at 70, it will be a labor job, by choice. Humans aren’t designed for pointless sedentary work.
@e0 I would normally rip you and your snarky response and instead laugh about you working until you are 70.
However this topic is way too important to let your defeatist attitude get in the way if it helps others.
If you go into it with the mindset of @e0 then it will be self fulfilling prophecy no matter how simple the time/value of money math is.
@ef already touches the basics and is a real life example. There are MANY other real life examples at SAS and elsewhere of people in their 50's that could retire because of
- Time
- Consistency of investing
- Budgeting
You don't have to make a lot of money to end up with a lot of money. But with that said if you work at SAS you are probably doing fine relatively speaking.
I'm also a real life example. I haven't retired yet but could at any time despite being 54 years old. Someone said it sounds like FIRE and I just ate pet food and will continue to eat pet food. Couldn't be more wrong. Have lived life well but within my means. Lots of good vacations, keep cars forever, don't eat out 7 days a week, etc. Ironically I call out budgeting as super important (it is) but I've never really had to do it all that much.
It doesn't have to start out maxing the 401k or Roth 401k. But you should be pushing the limits with the idea that you will make more as the years go by. What seems like a burden now won't be as big of a burden later.
If you procrastinate then you are probably never going to do it.
While I'm a fan of youngsters starting out with Roth 401k if your burden really does feel to high then lower the immediate paycheck impact by going traditional 401k (or a blend).
Go play with a financial calculator and see.
Here is a simple 401k one (they have lots of good ones at dinkytown).
https://www.dinkytown.net/java/401k-calculator.html
Play with rates of return, % contributions, etc.
Don't be an @e0
I'm not Company Man, but I retired from SAS and will tell you how I did it. I was an individual contributor throughout my career, so no manager-level salary.
Starting from the first paycheck, I invested at least 15% of my (gross) salary every month for decades. I was able to invest by choosing to invest instead wasting those dollars on lifestyle creep. I chose to not buy my first new vehicle until I was in my 40s, and I paid cash for it. I chose to buy the smallest house that met my needs instead of the largest house that lenders would approve. I chose modest - yet enjoyable - vacations instead of lavish ones. Every time that I got a raise or promotion, I chose to invest most (not all) of the increase into mortgage buy-down or additional contributions to my retirement account.
It is ALL about choices. You too can succeed at this. I retired in my early 60s as a result.
Company Man, please provide more of your sage investment advice.
We’d love to know how us common folk can find $2500 a month in our budgets to invest per your recommendations.
Are you implying that SAS employees are so richly rewarded that their salaries afford them that level of investment, plus the monies for housing, student loans, children, utilities, car payments, etc. ? That level of salary is a King’s ransom, indeed!
Please, please, my good man, tell us commoners how we too can accomplish such grand economic feats?
@bx I really can’t have you agreeing with me too much so I’ll say that most people on here have no idea what you are talking about with the secret love child nonsense.
JG can hire whoever he wants. Worry about doing your jobs and worry less about others jobs that have nothing to do with you.
Finally, I agree with “Company Man”. Be careful what you wish for regarding a layoff. Invest early and often.
The grass isn’t greener elsewhere. Each place has its big personalities and bullsh-t. However, other places don’t have secret love children mucking things up and getting allowances for unskilled work. You have to take the good with the bad.
@OP Hang in there. I am one of the folks often called “Company Man” on here. Some are going to use your post to sh-t all over things.
I don’t feel it as strongly as you but I get what you are saying and sometimes also wish I was laid off so I would be forced to go back to one of the big tech companies. But on the other hand I’ve been there before and remember how miserable that was also.
My suggestion is to listen closely to what @aj said here. They are right on the money.
Find joy where you can but don’t expect the work side of the job to be that. But with that said push for the work side to be more bearable if the other parts of your life don’t fill that void.
There is a reason that it is called "going to WORK".
Would you rather be fixing broken power lines at 2 AM in sub-freezing temperatures after an ice storm? ...extracting coal in a deep mine? ...re-roofing a house in heat of summer? No job is perfect - you have to measure the miserableness of your specific job to the benefits compared to the way that many other spend their days. SAS has a lot of perks - maybe you just need to try enjoying some of the ones that you have not yet enjoyed. Can't hurt to try.
You don't mention your age. If you are in your 50's, get access to some retirement planning software to make a realistic measure of whether you need to continue full-time employment. Maybe you will find that you are in a financial position to work only part time at a job that is more fun than lucrative (think park ranger, camp host...).
If you find that you need to stay where you are for a few more years, jot down the 2-3 things that make you the most miserable in the job, and your proposed ideas for "fixing" them. See whether anyone in your chain of command can work with you to implement your fixes. The outcome just might go your way for long enough.
Hang in there bud!
Please remember, this is a job, not a religion.
Spiritual recovery frameworks may help you tolerate the daily fu-kery of the high priests and priestesses of this bizarre religion.
Replace “sometimes” with every day for me. The very definition of a “bulls*** job”.
Agree with other post, take care of yourself first and ignore the stupid s***. You might just get lucky. Your manager might take notice of your lack of devotion to their personal nonsense priority of the day and put you on the “would get rid of if I could” list.
Agreed, at all hazards, do not leave SAS unless you find a better job. The job market is tough right now.
I was miserable at SAS several times. The best thing to do is to acquire new skills, to make yourself more marketable when your chance comes.
And go to the gym, build your body. It'll make you stronger and happier.
Best of luck!
Right there with you. I never thought I would feel this way but the vibe here is so toxic.
@OP Just hang on my friend. It's extremely difficult finding another job right now with AI taking over many jobs. And healthcare prices have increased, even Obamacare. Just take it one day at a time and remember, everyday you're able to work, that's money in your pocket to pay for a shelter, food, bills, and savings for rainy days that are sure to come as less human jobs are available.
Many corporations are now starting to layoff people 45 years of age and older. A few years back, they were mainly laying off people in their 60's but thing are getting really bad that they are now starting to layoff those in their late 40's.
It might look everything is fine due to record highs in the markets (S&P500, Dow Jones, Nasdaq) but that's the big boys gambling money as they swallow retailers (people like you and me) money. The stock market is not reflecting the average Joe (people like you and me). The market is in K shape, meaning the rich getting richer (the up line in the letter K) and the middle class getting poorer (the down line in the letter K). Just look at the price of gold almost $5000 (just two years ago it was below $2000). When gold and silver prices climb so high, you know something big and unstable is coming for the world economy especially USA since dollar is what's used for trade exchange throughout the world.
Therefore, just hang in their and be glad to be employed and save/save/save your money. AI and automation is coming for all of our jobs. Corporate greed is at it's highest.