So when do you think they will announce return to office plans? By end of July?
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If we are not assigned a desk, and if seating is reduced to 50% based on plans I have seen for DSM downtown building, I don’t see how there will not be WFH. I will not share a desk with anyone during COVID, and numbers are not decreasing like they should. Not going to have somebody else’s germs. A
A lot of us thought it was stupid working in a building long before COVID. Team building? My team is scattered throughout the US.
If you are working in NY or NJ, there is no seat . Where will you sit if you go to the office ?
“WHY?" are we going back to the office when WFH has proven to be productive and makes employees happier”
Not entirely true. Many people dislike working from home and it has hindered teammate development.
I find it quite hilarious that people were working in offices pre-covid and had no concerns. Now going back to the same office and all sorts of complaints, issues and excuses to not return. Dream of anything possible!
you people worried about doors are completely off the rails. They all have emergency release. Look for the green button. Any excuse so that you don't have to drag your lazy a$$ into the office. Get over it. It's a done deal. you will be in the office, or you will be in the unemployment line.
There will always be volunteers, from some who are desperate to get away from spouse or kids to the ones that want to curry favor with their manager. Some folks just like working in the office.
So what happens if they ask for volunteers for the first wave of rto and no one does? The more I see people are just going to refuse to go back. They can’t fire everybody. I don’t mean just WF, all over.
The US is a long way from capitalism, but I generally agree with your post. Meanwhile...
https://basedunderground.com/2021/07/09/astonishing-spike-in-post-vaccine-deaths-gets-no-media-coverage-as-over-2000-reported-this-week-alone/
Nothing to see, move along, we know what's best for you and no, it's NOT your body/your choice.
For everyone asking "Why? Why? WHY?" are we going back to the office when WFH has proven to be productiv end makes employees happier, WF's reason is very clear.
WF hears employees loud and clear. Which is precisely why they KNOW they'll get attrition through resignations. They WANT people to quit. Speaking out publicly about the pain of RTO only makes WF execs giddy and double down. Their PLAN to get rid of people WITHOUT layoffs and severance payouts will be successful and is music to their ears.
For other companies, there are several reasons beyond outdated thinking, sheer control and micromanagement.
Think of all the entire chain of businesses (some with LOTS of power) that relies on people working away from home:
■ Commercial real estate firms
■ Oil companies (gas for commutes)
■ Auto makers (commuting means cars need to be replaced more often)
■ Restaurants /catering
■ Clothing/shoe manufacturers
■ Cosmetics companies
■ Pet sitting services
The list goes on and on.
I'm not happy about the antiquated U.S. work model. Some countries move to 4-day work weeks and permanent WFH. But capitalism and greed are omnipresent here. WF's brand of it is particularly disdainful because of scandals, pi-s poor response to them and golden parachutes for corrupt leadership. We are minions. Actually, we're mercenaries with at-will employment who have the power to leave and find employment elsewhere. As mercenaries, we need to take our power back.
They can force me to go to an office if they want. I'll be reserving conf rooms or using huddle rooms though. No one in the hub is authorized to hear what I'm talking about on the phone, so cube living with a side of info sec risk isn't happening.
You can't rely on the fire system. Active shooters etc. don't release doors automatically and locking people in with no means of escape is how billion dollar law suits happen. Any site set up this way will be changed when the next upgrade happens. Seen it many many times. You can have alarms activate when a door is opened without a badge swipes, sure, np, but you can't have doors that can't be open without a card. Recipe for death and huuuuuge lawsuits.
@OP+1bKWaL3B - we have one location in Charlotte where you can't leave without a badge swipe. The door won't open. I had to work there once during a disaster, and there was a guy who forgot his badge who slipped in and tried to slip out.
He asked me to swipe him out. A voice over the intercom sad "don't swipe him out".
I swiped him out anyway since otherwise I'd be liable to suit for false imprisonment.
@1hdp+1bKWaL3B unless it stays locked when there's a fire, it's not an issue. Systems are tied to fire systems and automatically release safety doors in a fire.
Productivity is a non-factor in the decision making process for RTO. That's the first step to understanding it. What people "like" is even less of factor.
"They WILL be closely monitoring badge swipes -- in and out"
Fire Marshall will have a field day if there's not free egress so...
Because employee costs are much higher than the cost of having office space, and the plan is to reduce both as much as possible. So if employees like WFH, it's a great reason to eliminate WFH.
My only question is how they plan on applying this grand plan in LOBs that by definition must be geographically dispersed and have to physically be in the area they operate in. You can't "hub" such groups so the whole "move to a hub or take a package" plan clearly doesn't apply.
Saul even admitted we were 35% more productive since we were WFH a few months back. But then he took a sip of coffee and quickly moved on because it didn’t fit their narrative.
“ The problem is across the industry, any jobs that you can actually quantify the work product easily, the data does not support that people work as hard/efficient/long hours as they did in the office.”
Source? I googled and got this, which mentions a Ctrip study of their customer service employees which finds the opposite. https://www.fond.co/blog/are-remote-workers-more-productive/
Call center volume is certainly quantifiable. More at:
https://blog.hubstaff.com/remote-workers-more-productive/
https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivity-statistics/
Will telecommuters all really have to go back? Seems tough.
The problem is across the industry, any jobs that you can actually quantify the work product easily, the data does not support that people work as hard/efficient/long hours as they did in the office.
They extrapolate out that data and assume (rightly or wrongly) to the rest of the jobs. Hence the rush to get back to the office.
I really don’t get the emphasis on RTO. What is pushing it? Most people like WFH and are more productive. Few people in the office means lower costs for the company. So why the big push to go back?
LMAO! Terminations based on well-documented Employee Handbook/policy violations that would hold up in court would be a complete nightmare and finance/PR drain for the company. The company will continue with severance/attrition practices.
I'm surprised noone on here is attending CoP calls. Barring more COVID outbreaks, the "Reuniting' (yep, that's what they're calling it; branded and all!) is set for Sept.
Only mgrs w/current offices will have one. Everyone else will be in neighborhoods (unassigned workstations). No changes to furniture, layout, etc.
Employees encouraged to bring their own cleaning supplies to help sanitize areas for their personal comfort level (not kidding).
They are trying desperately to recruit volunteer Neighborhood Leads now to take the place of admins who usually manage RTW onboarding. NLs are expected to train "proteges" if Leads want to vacate volunteer role at some point. Currently, trying to figure out incentives to get NL volunteers.
Returns will be staggered (different Day Ones, depending in return date).
Some might have hybrid situation due to limited seating (max 2 days WFH per week).
They WILL be closely monitoring badge swipes -- in and out. If anyone thinks they'll swipe in and then swipe out before workday ends, think again. You'll be written up and eventually terminated (co. actively putting systems in place for "self-attrition" to avoid severance payouts).
Recent Attendance Policy change is another strategic stick to achieve desired attrition through enforcement of policies. If you are late, you're written up. Exempt and non-exempt.
CS isn't messing around. Pandemic delayed layoffs and it's full steam ahead now -- with major severance avoidance (due to cost) and, instead, major focus on justified terminations based on well-documented Employee Handbook/policy violations that would hold up in court.
Over 40 miles from location? Move on your own dime, otherwise you're SOL.
Much more to share, but it's an overwhelming amount of info.
Those who found employment elsewhere are the lucky ones.
Let's go phase 2! I'm ready
@xbn: Can confirm. It’s in the benefits book.
I believe it's in the benefits book that if they change your work location to somewhere > 40 miles from your home it's considered a material change to your job, making you eligible for severance.
Here's a fun game: Find official communication or intranet page about hubs or 40 miles or days in office vs home.
Betcha can't do it for any line of biz....
Thus, the rest of this thread.
@jfh I don’t know of any company-wide plan for WFH >40 miles, but in my LOB, my manager’s manager admitted to expecting to have to make a choice between moving or taking a package. When your 2-up tells you that, you know it’s time to polish the resume.
I'm super interested in what they'll do with those of us > 40 miles from a hub. Because I know a lot of people in that bucket who arguably perform some critical job functions.
Swipe my badge and head back home, says what?
Please stop saying these things without a qualifier, like "in my LOB...". It's not company wide.
I wish phase 2 was phase 1. I’m ready for the paid vacation while a hunt for my next gig.
@zzp I hope you are right. When would you anticipate phase 2 to begin?
Phase one is for those that were already working in the office full/part time. There will be a phase two for those that were 100% remote pre-covid.
And if you live more than 40 miles from a hub, buh-bye. Thanks for playing our game. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
What I heard was that if you live within 40 miles of your office you are supposed to be onsite 50% of the time measured over the space of a month so if we have 20 work days per month, you need to go in for 10. Apparently nobody much is getting an office (I'm in tech and only SVB's directs will get offices - nobody under that). I assumer we'll hear more but this is probably what we're looking at starting after Labor Day.
That wasn’t a plan, it was a general could be statement that covered their asteroids either way.
They’ve announced the high level plans. We’re still waiting on the details of who, when, and where.
They've already announced the RTO plans.