It's supposed to be an improvement plan but we all know the end goal is to fire as many people as possible while saving all the costs associated with layoffs. A coworker who's been put on a PIP is breaking his back trying to meet whatever (in my opinion) unattainable goals they set for him and I really feel sorry for the guy. I think his fate has already been decided, no matter what he does.
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I was put on a pip basically for not following a process they did even have documented. I carefully documented all the points to improve on. At the end of the day I was teaching my diversity hire how to do her job. I got put on the final notice and called ethics. That slows the process. HR is useless I saved all my paperwork and gave it to them. You know what they said .....they didn’t agree with me because the manager didn’t agree. Even though the information was right there in front of them as proof I meet my pip. I was let go and hired back 8 mo the later. Guess what ? I’m fixing their broken process, she is down to managing no one and her boss is gone. What goes around comes around.
I was put on a PIP by a new manager at another firm, after 7 years of stellar reviews. I found another job and quit before 30 days were up.
That manager had his same-s-x live-in partner in my chair before it was cold.
Coinkidink?
@1omf+18qgRNSO, let's hope it never happens to you. Some managers can be very picky. Not fair to blame the employee.
heck if some incompetent person gave me one of these, i would treat it like what its worth - nothing!
Management and HR not competent to make these decisions here
In 99% of the cases where an employee is on a PIP the employee is the problem and not the manager.
Wells is not a charity, we are hired to do a job. If you can’t do it you can’t do it. No shame in that. Step aside so they can bring someone in who can.
But don’t sit here and blame managers for your problems. If you are on a pip you need to take a long hard look at yourself and start taking responsibility for your actions
No.
A PIP shows that the employee put on one has an absolutely terrible Manager who cannot, or has not, worked with the employee to train them to do their job.
A pip is an incredible amount of paper work, headache and hassle for a manager. No manager hands them out unless as an absolute last resort.
In my 15 years here I have only seen 2 employees actually ever get them. Both were incredibly lazy entitled people who would do the bare minimum and were toxic to the team.
Love how so many managers don't take responsibility for their role in all this. Lazy and not willing to manage or coach.
I put someone on a PIP early this year and gave her an inconsistently meets at mid year. She has since improved and I gave her a meets for year end. PIPs are not normally used strictly to fire people, but I have seen at previous organizations where low rated/performance plan associates were added to the list of RIFs. They were still eligible for severance and unemployment in that case, so it was more kind than firing for cause.
@awc+18qgRNSO I am sorry that happened to you. I'd argue that PIPs aren't the problem, cultures and bad managers are the problem. PIP could be a fine tool, in the hands of someone with the right intentions and training/oversight to use it properly.
If the unwritten rule is, use them to CYA when you want to fire someone... that's lousy.
Glad it's behind you.
PIPs are no good. It's just a step out the door and to protect the company against a legal challenge.
I was put on one at another company and I can say it was more humiliating than helpful.
Everything I did, the manager documented that I did something or said something wrong. Everything. Nothing was positive. It was like walking on eggshells and I could see that she was enjoying tormenting me.
She didn't like my personality because I was quiet and she expected me to be a roaring lion like she was.
Ultimately, I was let go and as it was hurtful, it had to happen and I'm glad I'm out of there. Would I do it again? Probably not.
This bank is playing all the disgusting games they can to let employees go.
@vlq+18qgRNS Great point, and I agree it made for an inauspicious start to the process. I honestly wanted to help this employee improve, after years of being passed around instead of developed.
@ukt+18qgRNSO and failure of the direct to sign could be argued that they do not have intentions of improving. Makes the denial of unemployment easily provable. While you can collect unemployment for incompetence, if you obviously push back against an improvement plan would should evidence of insubordination, and show that the company acted in good faith to try to save your job. I'm not saying that's what PIPs are used for today, but it is evidence.
Only thing here, is the HR department is a criminal network, so not sure what they say is legal or true
Maybe it's changed, but I put an employee on PIP a few years ago and while there was a space for a signature I knew my direct would refuse to sign it. HR told me it didn't matter if she did or not, the process would still move forward as if she had.
PIP was once a legit tool for developing an employee who was struggling, although many managers weren't willing to put in the work of documenting issues, having the uncomfortable conversation, giving constant feedback etc. Most tried to "manage people out" instead. (And culturally firing just didn't happen.)
So, lazy managers would never give someone a 2 or 3, because no internal hiring manager would touch them. I once heard a "leader" call it "passing the trash". Nice, huh?
I don't think anyone even pretends that PIP is the start of employee development or issue resolution now. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am.
Do you have to sign an informal PIP? I thought you could still be on a PIP (formal or informal)?
A PIP isn't getting approved unless there's legitimate performance issues that actually need to be improved. Pretty easy to avoid them, and the idea that the company is using it as a tool to fire people is laughable–they fire people all the time without a PIP and it's not like there is a quota where they 'run out' of regular old firing and have to resort to the PIP-approach to fire people. I wonder about you guys sometimes. Bottom line, the company does not need any 'excuse' to fire anyone, just like we don't need any excuse to quit / leave for a better opportunity.
I would never sign one, always quit; the idea is to coach people out or fire them so there is nothing the company lose in dollars.
Managers here saving the dumbest employees and putting smart one's on PIPs as they are not too bright either. They dont want employees that can take their job over and even do much better. Confidence issues.
I never personally have faced one, but its them telling you to quit or they will fire you.