Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

Lay off details and how it happens

To those that are trolls move on. I started to post this as a reply but think its far too important so I made it a separate post. To those that have been sincere in posting real info thank you. For what its worth here is all the info I can offer to remove some of the mystery.

First, there is a certain dollar amount of cuts that must happen by an organization. The dollars can be found in both cutting positions entirely and moving some to offshore. The total amount varies by org and is determined by the Head of area of business along with EVP. Its a large number so a lot has to happen. While accomplishing this we must also collapse the span of control to 7 to 1. . So first we eliminate the low performers and those we simply can do without. Then we evaluate what managers from the top down that do not meet the spans of control. The eliminated managers are then added to the ‘savings pile’. Think of the implications when this happens from the top down versus the bottom up. Each manager will take care of themselves first or risk being eliminated. As each manager up top pulls managers up from their org because a lower manger was eliminated, they pull up from their org and this pattern goes all the way down. So while middle managers will feel it, it will be lower managers of managers that will feel it the hardest in the first phase.

Then we look at the individual contributors that need or can be reduced (actually the very first step) . To offset the cuts at the individual contributor level for each US job as that is placed in Manila, you get two in head count back. For each Job you place in India you get three (tells you a little what they think in just that and that not flattering )Managers are given four columns of what duties and items can be moved and then what needs approval and finally what can not be moved. this is even less flattering to India when we look at what WF is willing to move and what we are not) So if a manager move one US head to India, I get three there. Now, lets say the actual work can be done is really 2 heads. I could still eliminate one US Job and that money goes to the total ‘savings pile’ of the org that the EVP must hit. . If that same job was really just a one person job, I get to eliminate two jobs on my team because of the heads I get in India and eventually I can hit the magical number for the org. I know this might be confusing, I’m sorry. .

My first notices will go out the 25th as others have reported on this board. Some of my team will be eliminated, with another 20% being moved off shore. There is a lot of garbage on this board some real.

As the vacuums are created and then filled by pulling up others, more teams are expected to do the same in phases. There is a group that is dedicated to only moving teams from Wells to offshore GSPO, just look them up. They facilitate all of the moves. If they schedule with you, you know what’s happening. You review a planning sheet with them but reality is many of the positions were long identified as ‘eliminated’ long before. The planning for this started in May. . The ‘planning sheet’ does take into effect the training that has to happen for your new team members in India. So in some cases if the training is several months for more technical positions,the phase of cuts are delayed only by that amount. The TM’s may not be informed they are training their own replacements but it should be obvious. The same sheets contain salaries of the TMs being moved or cut so that the total number of dollars saved can be hit by the organization higher level committee level members. My first easy ‘cuts’ are August 25th with rolling cuts there after in September and October rolling up and down the org. Then the next waves begin in the first part of the new year. These will be the most painful.

This leads me to that there is not be some large D-day scenario that many have spoken of, just waves of constant cuts. I dont see it and can only speak for my org (Iowa) I know this is happening all over. We are talking about an organization the size of a small city so maybe its a blend of both and more people are right than it appears.

Before the trolls begin, I posted this so some might have insight as to what is happening in some areas of the company. There is no ill will towards anyone or even the company. It had to be done. I have not heard total numbers because it is being driven by dollars per org not heads. I am sure the folks in finance have calculated good guesses though.

I am safe and will hit 15 years soon. For me, what we have become and what we have evolved to is sad and could have been avoided. Some of my team members have been with me for many years and this is sad. Had we been diligent and asked for only the heads we needed long ago, this partly could have been avoided. As an company we are fat, out of shape and political. It should have never gotten to this. Either way, the stage coach is a shadow of its former self. and now we will pay for it in stock price, bonus reductions, and RIF. Atlas has shrugged.

by
| 12690 views | | 62 replies (last June 20, 2022) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+16tb2r2f

62 replies (most recent on top)

True 100%

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @aRasm+16tb2r2f

10K views LOL

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @16ani+16tb2r2f

The real Jon Galt would have gone on for another 250 pages. Read the book...

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @8lmy+16tb2r2f

Any other updates too?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @7iqd+16tb2r2f

Hey John - do you know how the severance packages will look?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @7ahn+16tb2r2f

there is something backwards here; why on earth why you keep high paid workers when you need to cut 10 billion in costs! Plus tech is obsolete and need new ideas, too many mundane processes;

Sounds like it wont get any better with this job cutting process. Then more and more layoffs to fix it.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @3gii+16tb2r2f

John Galt is not real, and the not real John Galt moved to someplace not real where no one could find him and he had to do his own chores in a fairy tale.

Because cleaning their own toilets is what rich successful people strive to do.

As an aside, Ayn Rand lived off government checks during the Depression (they had a work program for theaters and paid, a lot, to use her plays) and she collected Social Security and Medicare in her old age.

Because she was bad with money.

Because the Ayn Rand people think is real is a fictional character like John Galt.

SMH. John Galt. My goodness.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2yjq+16tb2r2f

Well, this was a good, informational thread for a minute. Now destroyed by meta-drivel.

I don’t think most of us want to read “if I was in charge” bloviating. We want facts about the impending layoffs.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2uhl+16tb2r2f

Just to clarify for those who skim the posts: " John Galt" is fictional – he is a character in Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged. The OP dropped in brief Ayn Rand reference(s) in first post as an aside— so that of course took everything off a bit off course.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2oga+16tb2r2f

Geez Louise! @2xwy+16tb2r2f neither of you are John Galt! He is a fictional character. Just stop the nonsense. Do you have something to offer? If so, offer it. Get out of the land of fiction for the love of everything holy.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2rwp+16tb2r2f

@2lug+16tb2r2f was not and is not John Galt.

Flattery is being copied I enjoyed the post and even agree to some some extent with your post. This is the original long winded and well thought out, run on sentence using, pragmatic poster who went by John Galt and the previous post is not. Look at the writing style and verbiage. Look at mine. Look at several of my previous post. I’m cool that you want to use the tag line but bro. you are not me.. Your peers won’t know who wrote it so no need to bury this and add on to mine. . You wrote it so encrypted I could hardly follow. That’s not me. It doesn’t not sound like me or read like my style of writing and yet we can still agree on everything you said. I’m cool with it. We can’t let this board get to this. The trolls are bad enough. There’s a lot to be done and I can tell from your post you are passionate and you get what is really happening with details to match. Kudos for a great post.

Why not pick some other name and we can gather momentum by identifying the issues together and expose what needs changing. How about a great name like Machiavelli. I’m good with whatever but for those that are starting to really follow John Galt they hopefully can see and tell when it’s really me writing and not some imposter. I don’t say that negatively. I’m hoping to draw out more of us who can shed light on how things are really done and what the real problems are. There have been times I could call out names and really expose a few things but that time has not come. We first need to build a team and be able to explain what is really happening. Much like your recent well worded post. So don’t be offended if I don’t want you to be me.

Join me Machiavelli?

Sincerely,
John Galt

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2xwy+16tb2r2f

John Galt again. Just thought of my manifesto a bit more and wanted to sharpen the pencil on my theory. The problem afflicting Wells needs to be fixed with a regime change.

No , it is not the new NY-based JPMC crew that needs removing . These people came to fix the company even though their motives are not yet proven.

Who needs to go?

The IC P1 in Iowa who spent 10 years doing the same thing and now thinks he has added value everyday . And wants to keep going with the same task even though no one knows what it does for anyone.

P1’s manager P2 in CLT who tried to change somethings but then quickly gave up as it got heated saying change is just not worth it.

P3’s manager P4 in SF who thought it was always a good idea to go a bit slow otherwise we may be up pulled by the regulators for being too fast and rash.

P2’s risk manager P5 St.Louis who thought it is a good idea to issue a credible challenge for a scenario which the probability of occurrence is 2%

P3’s control counterpart P6 in NYC who thought the controls need to wait for 12 months more to show sustainability even though it has been in existence for 6 years with no incident , no issue , just to be extra safe.

Those are the villains in this piece multiplied 2500 times in various settings.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2lug+16tb2r2f

Why all of the Ayn Rand animosity? Ragnar Dannenskjold might have been the best literary character ever developed in fiction business book!

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1qbs+16tb2r2f

Hey John Galt, I hate Ayn Rand but you are such a legnend - thank you 1000 times for this post

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1pmt+16tb2r2f

@1mzz+16tb2r2f
@1ciw+16tb2r2f
This could have been an entirely new post but I chose not to.

Sorry for what could be labeled offensive In my name. I used the names to make an reference only. (misspellings on accident and doing this from mobile isn’t easy)

As for the reference to the names and regardless of politics, the point of the name is one simple thing and never meant to be political at all. Atlas had the weight of the world on his shoulders, it was more than he could stand and he shrugged. Things fell apart.

I like to think on the ole stage coach was once a mighty atlas. We have been infiltrated by incompetence, politics, consultants, chains of Bureaucracy, the inability to get rid of non performers and even pure laziness at many levels. I have met people that wfh at Wells and Wells is their ‘side business’, then Campers who just want to hang out until retirement, Leaders who only manage up and don’t care about their orgs and teams and there in lies what is making us shrug.

I have tried on large committee meetings to rectify some of this only to be eaten alive by those would be pushed out of their comfort zone and threatened by what is right. We say customer focused but what do we practice? We are not focused on the customer. Think of the real changes that would happen if we really were. That’s a separate post. We certainly didn’t get to here by being customer focused. A home loan takes literally twice as long as some of our competitors. At least we are cheaper right? Not by a mile. But as employees we get good rates since we are team members? Not by a mile. (I’m talking fees not the APR) We have screwed up auto to barely profitable and have maybe put a nail in the coffin or home lending with the latest fiasco. The user experience will win and we are losing badly here. We have ruined even our own employees into deferment by them simply asking questions about their loan with us and not asking for deferment. How sad. In an effort to help our customers and employees, this was simply gross incompetence.

Look at policies, rules and all around a culture that doesn’t innovate. Look where the long term focus is? If you don’t have LTI then you would agree. Long term incentives are way too top heavy focused. I’m not suggesting vast redistribution but I’m saying where is the focus? The core of everything and root of solutions is in our culture. We still have thousands of dedicated folks but until this changes we can only ‘shrug’ and hope we survive.

If this has sounded too negative, it is because I care and will be around to attempt to clean up my area of the mess. I want to be a part of the solution. I want those that do get to stay to be able to make an impact as well. It’s a long road.

Thanks for the props from those that gave them. It’s nice to know a lot of this resonates with others. I’ve put a lot a thought in this. Keep your heads up and my belief is that this will eventually be turned around. Eventually. Lots of pain and growth to get through but Covid may prove to be the catalyst that started it all. ( hint: I actually believe it will be :) there are some things happening at a very high level that tell me we have a chance to still ‘right’ things. Good luck to us all and at any level in any org, don’t let yourself or those around around you fall into those traps that got us into this to begin with. We need leaders not managers.

John Galt

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1igk+16tb2r2f

OP - a great post. Not a fan of Ayn Rand's novels, but that aside, this is an awesome write up

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1mzz+16tb2r2f

@OP, I was really into your posts. However, I noticed your name on original post says Jon Galt, but there are other posts that say John Galt. Naturally, this gives me pause and makes me question the info throughout the whole thread. Just sayin’...

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1shp+16tb2r2f

Red tape, red tape and more red tape... we just don’t know when to stop. Talk about not working efficiently. So much time wasted on monkey business

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ukl+16tb2r2f

OP - great post - the amount of positive responses is the proof

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1wrr+16tb2r2f

OP I’m still digging on you. We need you and more like you. I will put together some thoughts and be back. But in the meantime, high five 🖐.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1gjf+16tb2r2f

John Galt here, original poster,
This thread is mostly turning out as I had hoped. There are always the nay sayers and trolls but mostly what I wanted. I’d love to hear more from other orgs or areas, what they are seeing and we can just ignore the trolls. I’d be curious to hear from others who have info or real ideas as to how they would handle things. No sincere person would say we don’t need cuts but how would you do it ? What things would you change after that?

For me 1) we are a bank and giving away all the money to communities instead to our team members seems somewhat perplexing. I’m fine not giving any away. I mean we are losing money anyway and if they think giving away millions brings back more because we will bring in more customers, forget it.

Diversity and Inclusion: while a nice concept why don’t we just pick the best people for the job. We don’t need shove implicit bias training down people’s throats. ( you are a racist but you don’t know it, it’s insulting )

Let’s create a new meeting culture of LESS meetings. Why the endless meetings with tons of folks just sitting there. They add no value, say nothing and spend large majority of their time in useless meetings. The ones that do speak are in many cases “grand standing” with no real value either.

WFH. Talks of allowing more of this but some higher leaders are already hedging that this is not likely. I mean everything we type on a computer is key stroke logged anyway and I understand why. Either you are at your desk working or you are not. Who cares where the desk is? How much do we save in real estate in this alone? It’s big but it’s also about a feeling of loss of control.

Let’s k–l permanently the consultant culture. Far far too often they get in with the actual strategy of land and expand only to dig deep roots billing out 200 dollars an hour. What do we get? We get poor quickly and pretty charts and graphs. We spend billions here and well publicized.

Executive reviews should be done by both their manager and peers. 360 degrees. I don’t think this is a bad idea though the rest of the orgs. If you have a strong exec he can shield you from ineptitude and this is the top of our company. Let’s cut the garbage and get get the bad ones out. Peer review can sometimes seem like mob rule but the best feedback I’ve gotten in my career has been from my peers.

Eliminate the redundancies around risk. Geez do we need that many people grandstanding about a single risk ? Too many that watch the risk but not enough people to actually fix the risk.

Make the budgeting process more transparent. Many time in budget and planning meetings I’m not at liberty to disclose what is happening and why certain numbers are not seen down in the org. When entire orgs have and see budgets it will put leaders in check and reduce concerns about what is happening where. This actually fixes many other problems when you think of it. Hiring, (do we have enough to ask for this ) impacts of decisions (consultants) the list goes on and on.

What’s your list ?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1icb+16tb2r2f

@1ohd. Not wanting to be judged is a two way street. Just as you don’t want to be mocked for being positive or naive, consider not judging others who have had different experiences than you. Life has a way of changing up your plans and humbling you. I don’t want that to be the case for you or anyone, but sometimes it is. So try not to be critical.

Every employee has their own story. I came from a smaller well-run firm that I loved. The management was honest and valued their employees. Fulfilling happy career. That firm was bought out by Wells Fargo when I was in my late 40s. Kept a good attitude, and then the scandals hit the tape in 2016. After that, watched dishonest execs walking away with big packages, the company paying billions in settlements, a different CEO nearly every year making big promises and breaking them. Still kept fighting the good fight. And I liked my work so tried to focus in on that. I had a great boss who was good at walking the line between keeping upper management happy while still standing up for his employees and making ethical decisions. They got rid of him a couple years back. Now we work for a disrespectful #s driven guy who couldn’t care less about his employees, s—s up to the execs, and proudly parks his Ferrari in between the Honda Civics and the 10 year old Camrys. I’m 61 and have watched all the self-important big guys get rich from greed and bad decisions. And there have been a few personal curveball life events along the way that no one can plan for. So yes: I’ll admit I want a package to walk away. Sure, I probably could have made different decisions at various points. Hindsight is 20/20. I can say for sure that I have always done my best, worked hard and had hope for better things to come. Sounds corny, I’m sure. But I don’t want to be judged any more than you.
My stance is that employees should stand up and support each other.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1khn+16tb2r2f

Thing that s—s for many of us in ICS under CISO in Saul's org is that many toxic, legacy employees many of whom have been here over 20 years (for example, the "pit bull") will remain employed.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1sst+16tb2r2f

@1ohd: You must be in a role where the bank actually rewards you. In my 2+ decades I've been screwed over for promotions because I "wasn't expensive enough to be promoted". That was when I was the cheapest person in the group but doing more, and higher quality,work than my "peers".

Want to get training? Oh you can watch a video on the learning center. So what if you learn by doing rather than being lectured, it's cheaper.

Unless you're in some form of sales the bank hates you IME.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1qxf+16tb2r2f

No I have been in financial services for 19 years, most of that not at Wells Fargo, so I have some perspective on big banks that operate more efficiently.

I can see though that the company has a very high number of people who are angry and cynical, but unwilling to do anything about it.

Instead of mocking people who want better and who have made plans, maybe you all need to do a little introspection about why you are in the situation you are in.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ohd+16tb2r2f

Awww @1neu You’re so cute, all bright eyed and bushy tailed.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1uzn+16tb2r2f

I happen to like my job, and I like my manager.

My main problem is that I end up dealing with too many turf wars and too many people tripping over each other trying to do the same job. Then there is the small matter of how many people seem to be in the chain of command without any type of decision making authority making it impossible for me to get anything. Drastically reducing staff would greatly improve my work life.

I don’t intend to stay at WF for many more years, I am a FIRE participant, so in 10 years when I am in my midfifties i hope to be doing something involving education or perhaps nonprofit. I’m not hanging around the corporate world so the powers that be can rot my soul for the next 20 years.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1jeo+16tb2r2f

@1neu, why are you waiting if the sorry people wait for a package?

I say dont leave any money on the table

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ddj+16tb2r2f

@1neu: Your spirit is enviable. I hope more years of life doesn’t change it. But I can pretty much promise you that more years at Wells Fargo will.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1gxr+16tb2r2f

Don’t judge a man until you walk in his shoes.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1mvd+16tb2r2f

It’s sad that unhappy people wait around for a severance package instead of looking for, and seizing or creating new opportunities. I myself am waiting and hoping that a purge will improve things at work, and I can get bigger, more complex assignments and do what I enjoy doing. If I get cut so be it, but I am not hanging around hoping for that.

Of course, until we see who is actually cut, it’s possible that the bank and it’s “waiting around“ cohort are engaged in a game of chicken.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1neu+16tb2r2f

@1krh: This is probably why WF is so against voluntary severance. They realize people would leave in droves and they would experience one of the largest brain drains in history. Despite the fact I'd have a hard time getting a replacement job I would absolutely go for a package and I'm still 22 years shy of retirement age.

My guess is they'd be overwhelmed by the number of people asking for packages, therefore they'd rather be the ones choosing so they can retain who they want to train their eventual offshore replacements.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1zzk+16tb2r2f

@1yup: That’s a common response. But consider that it might be from a limited perspective. I should probably refine it, though, to say that a lot of employees age 55 + would take it. I know a lot of people in my LOB, since I have been here for so long. We’ve all been hanging on waiting for a package. We’ve known layoffs would eventually be coming since the scandals started in 2016. Many have a spouse who is still employed, so they don’t need to stay for the medical insurance. But even beyond the older group, a lot of younger employees are disenchanted and want out. A decent package would buy them some time to find another job, enticing them to go. I think there would be a mad rush for the doors. Wells makes everything so much more difficult than it has to be, and they end up accomplishing nothing. There’s more than one way to accomplish a goal. They could have done it 2 years ago, when they first started talking about it, and saved all the expense of 2 years of analysis and non-decision. The more people who accept the opportunity to go: the less people, like yourself, get displaced against your will.

Kind of a funny story: 3 years ago, I had heard that the bank had laid off a very knowledgable employee in another department. They were moving half of his department from St. Louis to Virginia due to an ill-conceived plan to split functions between cities. This guy was top-notch and our department really relied on him. I escalated my concerns to his manager in an effort to let him continue to work from St. Louis. The guy who was losing his job called me and told me to tone it down: he was happy to get a package and to get the heck out haha.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1krh+16tb2r2f

People have tried to volunteer during past layoffs. They were told no dice. The attitude is that Wells knows what is best and who they want and the decision is theirs and nobody else’s.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1uvp+16tb2r2f

Since you/ some others mentioned that newer hires will likely be let go; will they cut the university program hires that recently joined? I think it is miserable If they do that since no one will hire us with only 3-month experiences at Wells. So sad to see this.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ovx+16tb2r2f

@1hmw+16tb2r2f - good idea but the people you are trying to leave simply won’t. In fact they cannot. Most of them have no current skills (the organization did not help them) and they get enormous benefits.

Many also may think that the current regime is just the next batch of management and they can outlive these quite easily. Short of forced RIF there is no option left. If we do not take these drastic measures, all of us will be without a job. Sad but true

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1uyp+16tb2r2f

I’m supposed to have 7 directs but currently only have 6 as I was told due the pandemic they are unable to move the 7th person that I’m technically managing. I am managing this person and it does not show that way in Teamworks, not even a dotted line. In addition, I should really have an 8th but my manager is keeping that person for now ( as they also do not have 7 directs, I’m guessing). This is beyond frustrating and I’m concerned. Does anyone know if it’s true they cannot “move the line” due to the pandemic? I’ve been “managing” this person for 6 months, right when the pandemic hit, and it’s a very unfortunate situation but I’m being told everything is frozen due to COVID.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ywa+16tb2r2f

@1pjh: I am only commenting on what happened in the brokerage unit one year ago. Didn’t mean to convey that I think the same will happen next time. I found it atypical as well, which is why I posted. My goal for posting was to convey that the reasoning behind some of their decisions can be unpredictable and, in my opinion, twisted.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1nwu+16tb2r2f

@mfk back again one last time. Voluntary layoffs would be the way to go for Wells Fargo. It would save them the PR nightmare of forcing people out of their jobs during a global pandemic. At the very least, they should start there. Boeing and Verizon have both used this Reduction in Force format successfully in the past year. Not sure why they can do it and we can’t???? Many long-term/older employees would accept that offer, which would create more opportunities for everyone.

The benefits for voluntary layoffs are many: better perception by the public, reduces the chance of lawsuits, they don’t have to pay unemployment, and most importantly in my opinion - better relations between employees and management because they give the choice to the employees: who wants to stay and who wants to go?

Forced layoffs can cause resentment and poor morale/lost productivity even among employees who get to stay, because they feel powerless and are always waiting for the next shoe to drop. Wells Fargo always fails when it comes to building a great relationship with their employees. Nothing is more vital to your organization than dedicated and motivated employees.

Voluntary layoffs would be the best choice for everyone. I’ve read the counter-arguments and all of them added together do not outweigh any one benefit of starting out with the voluntary. Our management team is so out-of-touch with reality, that they can’t see their way through managing the company crisis in a moral way that would benefit everyone, especially the themselves.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1hmw+16tb2r2f

I am not so sure what you are saying is right around getting rid of new workers due to lower payoff;

if you look at other large companies and the worker type they layed off in last year, for the most part it wasnt the new people they recetly hired. Typically also companies lay off highest paid workers, maybe a one time payout higher but over time, the cost will have more benefits

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1pjh+16tb2r2f

Post a reply

: