Anyone work with India? Communication is terrible. They work completely different hours so high risk matters aren’t tended to quickly. They don’t truly get internal risk, period. Other comments on HOW TERRIBLE OUTSOURCING TO INDIA IS?
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Seeing offshoring work for decades at Wells and another financial company,I can say that results are mixed. Even some new people from other companies joining wells have the same opinion. Oddly enough, I work with many Indians that live in the US and even some of them complain about offshore resources. It isn't a racist issue– it's time difference, cultural, language and skills. If you have things that are explicit and pretty much set– ok, it'll probably get done. If it requires much judgement or critical thinking, don't hold your breath. One of the complaints I heard from on of my former colleagues (an Indian) was that too manyare all about getting promoted and not actually building their skills or doing the work.
With all the push for being in a core location in the US, it's a bit amusing how we will likely be pushing way more work offshore.
The best Indian techies come to the US, they don't stay there necessarily.
“follow-the-sun” means that instead of getting calls from Americans at 4:00 a.m. you get calls from India at 4:00 a.m. At least you can wake up foggy and understand what the Americans are requesting. I still remember the h*ll of somehow having Cognizant store my phone number as default. I changed my phone number.
@dvk Okay! Well this was a good discussion. I got something out of it. Appreciate your candor. Don’t agree with you on all points, but that’s ok. I do wish you well out there in Cali.
We are all victims of the same company, in different ways. We have strong opinions based on our own experiences and our individual LOBs and up-lines. There have been times where I’ve gotten testy, admittedly. It is usually with the name-callers, the finger-pointers and arrogant.
In a different world, we would find a way to come together rather than argue within the ranks. C-Suite keeps winning and the employees, the customers and the shareholders keep paying the price.
My team has India counterparts and you can absolutely tell the difference in quality. If they have to think outside the box in any way you can forget it. It's a total joke. All escalated issues, even if it is at 2 AM CST, the U.S. has to own it and fix it. I do blame lower management because they are the ones allowing this double standard. I also, blame the govt and Senior Management for promoting outsourcing to begin with. If we get laid off, good luck finding another place that isn't also outsourcing a potential job for us to some other country.
@VWH
I am completely against outsourcing jobs. I'm also against keeping poor performing domestic employees (I've been with WF over 20 years, I've seen more than my fair share of US-based losers).
I do, however, understand the idea of follow-the-sun and the current economic incentives to lower costs to the absolute bare minimum. Do I agree with them? follow-the-sun, sure. Cutting operations to the bone, no way in hell. But this is where we as a country are.
I'm a consistent 4 on my team (7 years in a row), one of our leads, and a single parent of 3 young kids. I also had to replace a major expense (car) at the start of the pandemic, in California, and expect to be let go for that reason alone.
I have no piece of paper saying I wanted to waste the last part of my childhood studying for 4-6 years, and I've met many people who did that are less useful than single-ply toilet paper. I'm screwed once I'm laid off since without that paper I can't get past a recruiter these days, not to mention I'm over 40. I'll never make the same income I'm making here despite being well under the MRP for my job title.
I don't blame India for that, I blame the fact that US economic policy encourages exactly what's happening. People who have the money write the laws for people who have the money. That's life.
I find working with the India personnel in the United States challenging. I asked a group (all Indian) via e-mail what their software stack was. Simple question - right? They didn't understand my question and sent the e-mail to at least four different people to answer it. No one could ever answer it. I mean! I had asked another group (not Indian) what their software stack was and they provided me an answer within minutes. Also, one Indian man kept calling me when I would send him questions via e-mail. I finally realized that he couldn't read my e-mails.
Most people are missing the point.
In America, corporations are required by law to do whatever it takes to provide shareholder returns. They can be sued if they hire a US based employee if they could increase profits by hiring offshore.
People in India deserve jobs, too, they have families to feed, I don't have an issue with that, but I do have a problem with unregulated Capitalism and a corrupt tax code putting profits over people.
To be clear, I'm a fan of Capitalism, I just don't want it rigged to work against me.
@zfz: I appreciate your post. I’m the poster below who replied that I will keep a more open mind when presented with the facts in an unbiased fashion.
I have a question: are you for Wells Fargo outsourcing jobs to India? If so, why?
I can’t speak for all of us, but most of us are not against people in India. We are against Wells Fargo outsourcing our jobs to any country. We ARE angry with management for being two-faced. For paying themselves on the top richly and then sending our jobs overseas and putting the onus on the US workers to make sure it goes smoothly. In our arm of the business, certain yes-men pushed the idea to make themselves look good with the $ savings. They got the promotions, then washed their hands of it, and we got stuck with the aftermath.
@sxa - you are obviously wrong since the macro actually seems to be working. If it was done in India, it wouldn't work for 6 months...
People do not understand, back in the 1990s GE was the first company to every try "out sourcing to India" for customer support first, then for other engineering functions. At first it seemed like a win-win, cheap labor and no benefits, etc. Over time costs went up. Over time they understood management of said offshore workforce was a major headache, timezone differences, communication issues, and different work ethics, etc. GE pulled everything back onshore after 10years. The benefits, face to face management, clear understanding/communication, better customer service responses. The sad thing is all the other corporations are still jumping on this offshoring idea, while silently GE withdrew. India the only country where English is spoken in a method that is not understandable, they talk too fast with odd inflections on the wrong sylablles. Second place is Australia, because you have to ask what they mean with every other sentence/idiom...."Happy as Larry" and "Bob's your uncle", "No Worries".
I don’t think that all people from India are incompetent but they don’t work at the company to understand the full picture. The post playing devils advocate sums it up. They need their hands held and you might have to wake up at 3:30 am to help them bc they can’t function without hand holding. Doesn’t sound like a quality option against an internal US employee. Are we going to be a quality company? Doesn’t sound like the bad publicity will end if we send work there. Are we?
You're talking about me, but you're not right.
I used to have all the gripes you have about EGS. Our EGS partner team was a major PITA, but we communicated through our upper management and got notable improvement. Admittedly our upper management cared about our opinions because our internal customers love our service. Now our management is different, but thankfully our major gripes are no longer issues and the EGS team lead finally gained a level of confidence and independence that enabled the EGS team to become self-sufficient.
Am I advocating that EGS is the greatest thing since sliced bread? No, I'm just really good at playing the Devil's Advocate.
I'm not disagreeing that plenty of EGS are little automatons that are scared to death of having to make a decision. If it's not in the game plan, run book or process they were handed they'll freeze up and need the US team to wake up at 3:30 am to fix something. But they are trainable and some of them are actually quite capable. You just need a good management team that is willing to escalate your issues, along with a bit of luck in the draw on the staffing side.
If anything you should be mad at the company for hiring the bottom-dollar talent in a corruption enabling, cheap market. WF always sc-apes the bottom of the barrel on contractors. Most of EGS is contractors, so they really have no brand loyalty on top of the aforementioned issues. Additionally they will get their friends hired and you get the same nepotism-enabled laziness you get on the domestic side (that was the worst when we dealt with it).
C-suite execs couldn't care less. Systems still function, money is still made, finance is in control of the costs and stock is bought back to pump their compensation. We suffer, they don't. It's not necessarily EGS's fault, they're a product of the executive focus on short-term profitability.
Go ahead and think I'm an EGS promoter, I'm just trying to give a fair and honest assessment as it relates to my experience.
Outsourcing to India is in the best interests of the firm. Period. It's a numbers game folks.
I’m not a big fan of the tone of this post. But I do agree that someone on the board is trying to sell outsourcing to India. And they are not very good at it.
I am swayed more when someone is objective. Pull too hard in one direction, and my nature is to be turned off . But if someone presents the facts, without bias, I will listen with an open mind.
Looks like the tread is being viewed by India. The arrows were up and are suddenly going down. LAUGHABLE!!
I can say that anytime I’ve had a tech issue and I get someone from India on the phone they are unable to help. You get transferred to an American and it’s fixed in an instant. That’s not a racist comment either, it is simply fact. The level of competency can’t be matched.
Im on a tech team and some of my team is in India. It is difficult to work with them for the same reasons in this thread. Communication and accuracy are the biggest issues. Both of those team members are in more advanced positions than most of us and we are constantly fixing their mess-ups.
I've met Indians who are great at their jobs but working abroad (US/Europe). Any time I've ever asked Indians in India help with something it's a waste of time: it's low quality work, with dishonesty about how long they need to produce something (5-10 times the time it would take me).
Contracting that went there was below subpar. They cannot draft. It’s literally a joke. Work went there and came back in-house because of all of the issues. Did they not learn from these mistakes? Wells Fargo has really bright people working for them. They’ve handled this so poorly.