Anyone else super doubtful of "Take those vacation days please for your good and recharge!" I am skeptical as ever. Reality is they are a liability on the balance sheet and will be paid out when the ax falls and they would like to minimize this as much as possible. Why not? Think of the scale of the lay offs coming and then reduce the amount paid out for all those accrued vacation days by say 30% ....That's still quite a large number.
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Glad to see someone who knows accounting. It is a liability. Those are those things on the balance sheet. Not the P&L. To the poster who mentioned that PTO is not a liability, stay in your lane and hope you have a job. if you lose it, take a few accounting classes, they might actually help you so you don't get too over confident in your next role and say something stupid.
from FAS 43:
- An employer shall accrue a liability for employees' compensation for future absences if all of the
following conditions are met:
- The employer's obligation relating to employees' rights to receive compensation for future absences is
attributable to employees' services already rendered,
- The obligation relates to rights that vest 1 or accumulate,2
- Payment of the compensation is probable, and
- The amount can be reasonably estimated.
PTO is not a liability of the company, it is an accrued expense. Makes no difference financially to the company whether you take it or get paid out upon termination. The accrual already accounts for a certain amount of "breakage"( unused days that are lost the following year) and a forecasted amount of payout for layoffs.
The numbers are that when larger numbers of people delay taking PTO (as is happening this year due to COVID), there will inevitably be more breakage. So if the company was trying to avoid expense they would not be encouraging people to take PTO, they would be silent or discouraging it.
The bigger issue with this company, is it is the worst playing employer in the US or outside the US. They prefer to spend their money on the crimes they have to pay penalties to than to get the right people working in the environment and fix the companies state. Unfortunately JP Morgan chase is obsolete so i dont see how any old thinking people will help the bank improve or get out of the mess its in and tbh, they were not too smart to move to this mess of a company
I think this is end of days for it, until the Feds break it up and give pieces out to other companies or just allow the Federal Reserve to seize it
Yep. California has some pretty good employee protections on the books.
Things like that are why conservatives constantly attack the state.
Conservatives say that low regulation and low taxes cause economies to bloom.
But California has high taxes (mostly because it supports Red States) and lots of regulation, and yes somehow Cali keeps cranking out millionaires and billionaires like candy.
California has problems, everyplace does, but it's proof that small government/low taxes is just a scam for the very wealthy to abuse and underpay employees.
That is when they can't ship your job to EGS.
If you are positive you are getting laid off, hoarding your PTO is a good strategy because you will get a bigger lump sum when you exit.
If you are maybe not getting laid off, hoarding your PTO is giving money to the bank, because you will not be able to take five weeks off a year's end, and unless you live in CA, NE or MT, you will only be able to carryover five days.
I get a regular report showing how much PTO, on average, my team is carrying, with a comparison to last year (I suppose I could dig down to individual level but I haven't, though I may need to in the fall to get people to take their vacation rather than lose it). With 40% of the year left, my team has 81% of its PTO yet to take. I think a lot of people have been saving it in the hopes that WF will do a one time payout of unused PTO at year end, or allow more than 5 days carryover into next year because this year has been so weird. The OC considered this but they have decided against it.
It is possible to get a hardship payout of unused PTO at year end, but that is only if you truly have been unable to take it during the year. You would have to show that you had PTO scheduled earlier in the year that the bank had canceled, probably more than once.
Your request to take the last week of the year off is in no danger, but your request to take Thanksgiving through New Year off is, which is what a lot of people would have to do if they don't use their PTO now.
I will take a PTO for sanity to recover from the toxicity here, not due to any reccomendations from management.
If i get laid off i will put my loan into forbearance immediately, get unemployment, take 6 months off then get another job (Just Over Broke). Push Bernie to up the stimulus by taxing more the banks like Wells Fargo, collect money from them versus only the central bank and increase forbearance duration through next year.
Honestly i know times are tough but health and family takes precedence over any job. I may just change jobs anyway due to the groups toxic behaviors. But i certainly wont not take PTO.
AMEN!
For all the complaints about CA, the state does offer many protections. PTO equaling earned wages is one of them.
Now, if only CA could attract more companies...
The PTO accrual cap in CA is 150% of your yearly allotment. So if you get 4 weeks PTO per year you are capped at 6 weeks.
Take enough to stay below that, hoard the rest.
@for is clueless.
Most people on this board don't know CA law. I'm glad one poster got it right.
Those on CA don't lose PTO (it's carried over year to year). What they do have is an accrual cap, so they need to take enough PTO to stay below the cap.
CA states PTO is compensation, just like wages. It is a GUARANTEED payout to those in CA.
So if you don’t get laid off by year end and you have loads of PTO you will lose it. You can only carry over a certain amount( varies by state lay).
People need to realize that layoffs will certainly continue on through at least 2021 so don’t count on knowing your job status before year end 2020
As a manager there was something my leadership told me about with regards to PTO.
Part of the concern is that leaders are worried about entire teams trying to take all of November and December off because they can’t carry over time. Our leadership communicated to us that they were going to deny PTO if people were planning on taking the entire end of the year off because they didn’t use any PTO.
It’s common that people take a couple weeks at the end of the year, and that wasn’t the concern. The concern was that due to Covid almost everyone has stocked up their days and so many people will try to take all of December off that the bank could be at a stand still.
Pair that with what appears to be impending layoffs and there is a strong desire to have people use their time.
I was told that at some point the heads of departments will be getting regular reports indicating how much PTO has been used and how much is scheduled.
California Labor Law: Vacation Pay is earned compensation
California law provides that accrued vacation time or PTO belongs to the employee. Employees may either use their vacation time during their employment, or cash out the value of those hour at the time of their separations. When an employee quits or is fired or laid off, all accrued, unused vacation time must be included in the employee's final paycheck.
There is no state that requires an employer to provide PTO at all. There is nothing keeping the bank from stopping the accrual of everyone’s PTO today if that’s how they want to roll.
In CA accrued PTO must be paid out by law. That is why there is a limit on how much can accrue. The law varies state by state.
People are really losing it. You do realize that PTO is a benefit, severance is a benefit, 401k match is a benefit. The company can pull or change benefits at anytime.
If you are suspicious that the company will delete severance benefits, you should also be concerned that you won’t get paid for unused PTO. By that logic, you should take your PTO as soon as the days accrue.
PTO is not a liability, it does not appear on the balance sheet. It’s an expense reported on the income statement. Please learn the meaning of the terms you use to keep yourself from looking both ignorant of accounting principles and dead wrong about how benefits work.
Bingo! I've been telling colleagues this and they think I'm conspiracy theorist.
Why do they think the sudden, umpteen mentions of "pleeeease, take your PTO" at team mtgs, All Hands mtgs, etc? Mgt claims it's to benefit our mental health during the pandemic.
Riiight...
If they cared so much about our health, they wouldn't have massive layoffs. It's 100% to reduce PTO payout!
Again, total lack of transparency. Treating adult professionals like id–ts. So disrespectful.
I have only taken the personal holiday and volunteer days. I am hoarding until I know I am safe.
Before the announced layoffs I think the idea was that they didn't want so many people with having to take PTO at the end of the year when you must take it or lose it. Last thing they'd want is 1/2 the company out on PTO at the end of the year.
If I remember correctly, it was a problem during the Wachovia merger too.
Agree – PTO days are the only "money in the bank". Keep hoarding them as long as you can as year end approaches. Severance – aka "salary continuation plan" is not guaranteed – lots of conditions that must be met – expect a fight for every last nickel.