I don’t want to preach the “get out while you can” story, especially keeping in mind that I’m also an Oracle employee that isn’t really doing anything about getting out of the company, even though I know that Oracle as we remember , no longer exists and that uncertainty and fear are now an everyday occurrence at Oracle. Just wonder if everybody is in the same situation as I.m, irationaly hoping that things will get better by some miracle, even though I know very well that that’s not going to happen. What’s the reason people are staying at Oracle?
16 replies (most recent on top)
I don't want to leave Oracle as I've been here for a generation. The outside world looks scary so staying here is the safe option regardless of how Oracle treats me. Many people think the same as me.
Pay was down nearly six figures over the last few years,
Are you saying your pay was reduced? Or are you saying that you didn't get competitive raises?
I stayed because it was easy - work from home, outstanding work/life balance. Pay was down nearly six figures over the last few years, but I was only a few years from retirement. When my manger called and asked if I'd be open to a package, I jumped at the chance and took it. Happy for the kick in the pants to move on. I had the opportunity to stay in one of several other roles, but my heart's not in it any more. I'm taking the summer off, working on my tan and my 'self'. I'm sure I was RIF'd because of age and higher salary, but I'm not going to fight it –
Suggestion: Don't get 'stuck' at Oracle - I did. It's very easy to take the work/life balance and remote management for granted, but it's a slippery slope. Your skills decline, you get lazy, your career (and income) suffers. However, if you make the most of it, it can be a good part time job ;-)
I call bulls..t on this thread. I left Oracle prior to the great 2017 cut. I saw key people in key positions who were long time employees.
Experts leave, not because they s....ked but because they found better opportunities. I was getting calls from Google, Facebook, Microsoft and others constantly. I always thank them and said not interested. One day old friend called and made an offer I couldn’t refuse...and I resigned.
And guess what over +50
For Starters,
all you said are true but may be incomplete, so I want to add,
there is always more than one problems. So if you haven't successfully overcame the age barrier and landed a new job, you haven't actually identify all the problems yet.
I generally agree with most of what you stated. However, I think it's a symptom, not the problem itself.
For starters:
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ageism is illegal
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hiring managers, execs, leaders, etc. are usually 45+
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there is no better time in history in the prof workplace for older people and it's still getting better
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societal changes in thinking
Aside from the hiring/interviewing process being competitive and all the skills needed for one to navigate against that.
The real problem is as you've stated:
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lack of modern skills
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health issues (affects all ages)
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becoming overweight
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a know it all attitude
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inability to 'relate' and adopt
It's easier to find a crutch and lean/blame it for one's problems instead of looking from the inside out.
And you're way too kind to the original poster. If you read his/her post it basically says "guys, i'm awesome, can't find a job because of my age; you wont be able to either cause you cant be as awesome as me."
"Because once you’re 50 no matter how smart, accomplished, or how many certifications you have the only chance you have of getting another job is going to be a no name company on probably half the pay"
Ageism is alive and well. It is absolutely something to be concerned about, to protect against and to plan for. I know people that have been impacted and it is incredibly disheartening. I'm at this age and it is something I'm very concerned about. And I'm sorry that this is where you are at.
However, experiencing ageism it isn't an absolute. Having key skills and experience has value that isn't easily replicated by a younger person who is willing to work for less. Additionally, there are companies who are actively looking for that right blend of experience and knowledge -- AWS, Microsoft, Google, MongoDB and Snowflake to name a few -- and are willing to pay more than the going rate at Oracle. It's possible to continue to do well even in your 50s, but it isn't easy and requires working against how Oracle pigeonholes employees into skills that aren't in demand elsewhere.
That being said, staying put at Oracle can be a strategy. Benefits are pretty good, pay is decent and work/life balance can be better than elsewhere. It's all a risk/reward calculation and trying to be in a position where Oracle doesn't target you, your team or your division for downsizing. Taking time to study/certify other key tech is always a nice insurance policy though.
"It's not a mystery"
That certainly explains your presence here.
It's not a mystery.
Many are staying there because they can't do better. Some will accept it and milk it as long as possible till they are discovered and removed.
The ongoing complaints are just psychological ointment to mask their self-loathing and inaction.
Because once you’re 50 no matter how smart, accomplished, or how many certifications you have the only chance you have of getting another job is going to be a no name company on probably half the pay (speaking from experience) pay off all your debt as fast as you can so if you get chucked out you don’t have to be downsizing and having no vacations to stay alive
The work/life balance and work-from-home benefits far exceed any raise or "ladder climbing" I could hope to find in a job market like this. Personally, I dislike job hoppers, and value dedication and commitment much more. Besides that, why trade one mismanaged company for another one?
If you work in tech and have any measure of interest in it, you have no problem learning new tech. That is part of the job description. The problem is you can spend big bucks improving your education, taking cert classes and all that. Can still be an uphill battle to find a job if you are older and would not be considered a “cultural fit” with the skinny jean crowd. Look before you leap. Make the best decision you can for your life.
It's a job with benefits and within the software industry where pay well exceeds the average in any given country. That's reason enough for some -- those within reach of retirement, those who don't want to go through the process of learning a bunch of new tech, those who have a good work/life balance and those who are using the job as a career launching point or stepping stone. Sure, LE and MH are world class narcissists and have created an awful culture filled with fear and uncertainty and that have led the company into a position where it is just trying to avoid Wall Street figuring out its future is poor. In the end, it can be tolerated especially if there are some peers or managers that help shield the ill-effects to some degree. Its story isn't that different than IBM over the past several years -- people are employed and will deal with it as long as it meets their needs for the time being. It might not be fun or even healthy, but it will do for the moment.
Going elsewhere can offer significant benefits, especially in pay since Oracle skimps on raises and stocks. In some cases, the pay increase is very significant. It can also be refreshing to be untethered from legacy technology and to be able to grow personally and in one's career prospects. Arguably, being somewhere that is experiencing success is going to be more enjoyable than somewhere that is struggling because there is more money for pay, bonuses, perks and benefits. However, there are potential downsides too. AWS is led by another world class narcissist, MS has plenty of organizational dysfunction and Google is being invaded by ex-Oracle, Microsoft, etc. execs that are ruining the culture. In each case, the work/life balance is typically tremendously askew which can make the financial gain look like a questionable trade to those who aren't workaholics.
It all comes down to what each person wants and what they are willing to put up with. If you have a reason to stay or a plan that you are trying to execute, that's fine. If you don't, just make sure you stay up on your skills and on new technology so that you won't be adversely effected should Oracle decide to part ways with you.
They hate it there and can't wait to leave. You are making a great case why nobody of substance would ever want to work there.
Yeah, three years from retirement and old enough that nobody would want me. Plus over 20 years at one company I'm finding is a definite strike against you (judging from comments I've heard from recruiters).
I just need two more years, three to pay down some debts, and I am personally acquainted with a half dozen others there who are doing the same thing.
It's actually not that bad where I am, so yes I can stick it out. I like my manager, his director and our VP a LOT. It's the execs in HQ that need a clue.
The only people I know who are planning to stay are those who are within two years of retiring. Makes zero sense to look for a new job if you are planning to pack it in. They hate it and but sticking it out until they can retire. I know one who is less than six months from retiring and would love to be RIF'd. a paid summer vacation AND unemployment. I tell him it will never happen.