All hands meetings being cancelled on orders from legal to prevent news from spreading.
Hardware teams being told to cease development.
There will be no Solaris 12, final release will be 11.4.
Orders coming straight from Larry.
No info on timing yet.
@KBEVoB1-7lng Mind to point to a verifiable source?
@6hrr: "all their top engineers left Oracle"... well, no, not really. A handful of high-profile ones did. There are many more still working at Oracle than ever have, or probably ever will work at Joyent et al.
yes, news is real RIFs are happening !!
Whoever made this decision I hope he/she suffers the same fate - it's a great product... Sell it, do not EOL it...
This thread is getting ridiculous ...
Indeed. I would say working for Oracle is working for peanuts.
Oracle is one of the cheapest company around.
Polish up your Linux resume and then leave for better $$.
Oracle can hire all the H-1 visas new grads they want...
(that's what Oracle HR do..)
Cheer up - I doubled my salary switching from Solaris to Linux, and have had pay rises every year since - I forgot what those were like working for Oracle. Working in Solaris means working for peanuts.
I know others who also doubled. Senior Solaris whatever, $150-$250k/year. Senior Linux whatever, same job, add $100-300k and more. I know someone north of 400k on Linux. Base salary. Ex-Sun.
I realised I was "paying" over 100k/year post tax to work on Solaris instead of Linux. With those so-and-sos in charge, it ain't worth it.
Get over it and move on. We tried. We lost.
Seagate to cut 8,500 - the only thing faring worse than enterprise servers is network storage: @KzFnBmO
@KBEVoB1-6wdm This will be in the textbooks describing the word FUD.
@KBEVoB1-7wpy HPC computing and commercial computing are two different sets of load, datacenter design principles, cost constraints, they are not the same ballpark, they are not the same league, they are not even the same sport . You cannot draw any conclusions from HPC to commercial computing and vice versa. In HPC the OS doesn't matter at all as the load is rarely using it, all that matters in HPC is the userland code.
https://twitter.com/ExadataPM/status/778017406710980608
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CswSs_7UAAA7b0X.jpg
@KBEVoB1-6wkv And is running into problems with it http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2470034/fujitsu-s-arm-based-exascale-supercomputer-put-back-by-two-years when you believe this report.
Fujitsu didn't stop the development of SPARC. They just use a different processor for the Riken successor. The HPC part of Fujitsu is quite a different story than their commercial offerings and the commercial part of them is still developing SPARC as far as i know. Besides it's a trend in HPC to use smaller but more cores as the load they are applying to their system is significantly different from the stuff people doing in commercial computing. Just look at the current top system on Top500 based on a Sunway SW2601 processor. HPC has nothing to do with general purpose computing as they tend to use GPU or speciality CPUs (Xeon Phi, Sunway or later this ARM stuff)
Fujitsu SPARC Roadmap: http://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/computing/servers/unix/sparc/key-reports/roadmap/
Oracle SPARC and Solaris Public Roadmap: http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf
@KBEVoB1-6yre I saw this tweeted recently: Linux is now 99.6% of the top500 supercomputers.
https://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1
Fujitsu has indeed stopped development on Sparc64:
https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/06/23/inside-japans-future-exaflops-arm-supercomputer/
Solaris has been, if not dead, at least a zombie, for a while--all their top engineers left Oracle and now contribute to SmartOS, Illumos, etc. that are actually open source. I can't imagine who would use Oracle Solaris except people who are already locked into it.
This is the ULTIMATE FUD THREAD of all times.
Human history will remember this thread.
@6izu - well put - the numbers do not add up if you compare ANYTHING against AWS...
AWS is killing everyone with scale, scale, scale...
it's all nice and shiny about risc being more powerful with SAP (though we never ran SAP on Solaris, rather on AIX) but you're forgetting the main factor and that is the IT budget, we switched from p770s to aws r3.8xlarge instances (that have double the memory as had AIX lpars and the utilization is roughly the same - around 30% average) while the costs are about 2/3 of those on Power with maintenance
and we don't have to take care of the infra, so there are another time savings
so yeah RISC was nice and fast (i miss AIX) but nowadays it's not a good option if you want to survive on the market offering a good price
Linux has very bad scalability. Linux scales excellent on SGI UV3000 and similar servers, but they are scale-out clusters capable of only running clustered HPC workloads such as number crunching, BI analytics, etc. Such clusters can have 10.000s of cores because HPC workloads are easy to parallelize. So you want many cheap cpus (x86). Typically, scale-out UV3000 serves one scientist at a time, doing a 24-48h number crunching workload.
Enterprise business ERP workloads (SAP, OLTP databases, etc) can not be parallelized, you need a single large scale-up server for that. So you want few strong cpus (RISC). Scale-up servers typically have 16 or even 32 sockets and run SPARC/POWER or IBM Mainframes. Look at the SAP benchmarks, the top all belongs to Unix with 32 sockets RISC. There are no single Linux x86 server doing high SAP. Typically, scale-up business servers serves thousands of users simultaneously, doing accounting, payroll, etc.
Look at the SGI use cases on their web page, all the UV3000 customers are doing HPC clustered workloads. No customer is doing SAP or OLTP databases or other business workloads. Google if you want. So a large Linux server with 10.000 of x86 cores can not beat Unix 16 or 32 sockets on SAP, OLTP databases, etc. Linux scales up to 8 sockets on scale-up x86 servers, but not more. If you need 16 or 32 sockets, you must go to Unix and RISC. The Linux devs have only access to 1-2 socket desktop PCs. There does not exist large 32 socket Linux x86 servers, so Linux can not scale good on 32 sockets, because the devs can not optimize Linux to 32 sockets.
And we all know that Oracle is only doing business servers (which require scale-up). And we all know that Linux scales bad on anything larger than 4 sockets scale-up. So when Oracle is releasing 16 sockets, 1.024 cores, 8.192 threads, 16 TB RAM for the M7 servers - Linux can not utilize all that business power. Only Unix can (Solaris, AIX). So if Oracle is canning Solaris, then Oracle looses the ability to run large business workloads. Oracle can not sell large business servers without Unix because only Unix can run large business workloads.
Look at SAP benchmark top list, the top is Unix and RISC. Linux and x86 is far below. Recently, HP has redesigned their HP Integrity Superdome RISC Unix server which sported 64 sockets, and instead inserted x86 cpus. But the new HP Kraken server, stops at 16 sockets, whereas Unix went to 64-sockets. The highest x86 SAP score is HP Kraken, a redesigned Unix RISC server. Other than HP Kraken, the largest x86 server has 8 sockets, and those SAP scores are bad.
In short, if Oracle kills Solaris, then Oracle can not sell large Business servers longer. The largest Oracle database installations in the world are exclusively running on Unix / RISC servers. There are no large Oracle database installations on x86 running Linux. Exadata is quite small, compared to the largest Unix RISC database servers.
It is well known that IBM is FUDing a lot. It is also well known that IBM supporters have a long history of FUDing. This could be just the same old FUD from IBM. Nothing to see, pass along. In fact, it was IBM who started to use FUD systematically on every level in the company. In fact, the very term "FUD" comes from IBM attacking other companies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt#Definition
"...FUD was first used with its common current technology-related meaning by Gene Amdahl in 1975, after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp.: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products...."
Well, as an outsider, I have to say that it has seemed fairly obvious that this could come to be; the confirmation for me was when they shipped the Exadata & Exalogic with a choice of Linux, you could see that Solaris wasn't particularly strategic. Couple that with the rise of the Cloud (AWS & Azure) and companies shifting away from the non-independent Solaris platform and you don't have to be a genius to put 2+2 together.
Rumor here included supposed meetings for teams that were going to have jobs in the future. Teams left out are to be cut. Sounds ridiculous.
@KBEVoB1-5yyn, I want to add:
this rumour hasn't confirmed by any news service with its own set of sources inside of Oracle.
all reports about this rumors are refering to this site, there is no other source.
not a single report in this website has really substantial information with it, everything is still rumour-class precision.
Oracle isn't commenting on rumours at all, as one comment told us.
Oracle is in their Quiet Period before announcing their financial numbers for the quarter. So we may get get no official information from them until the numbers. On their own rules they can't answer to anything.
from my point of view : A multitude of reports buried in the 200 messages below indicate that there might be something cooking, we had zero messages that 'looked' or 'felt' like insider messages that confirmed this.
We all expecting such a move from them. So we take everything that confirms it as granted. One should be cautious not to fall in confirmation bias.
Larry wants the money. Linus has the upper hand with Linux. Larry doesn't get it. Linux does. CDE hopefully will live forever for the geek in all of us (yes, KDE plasma and GNOME 3.x both s---!).
@5dpo - this is what we know:
Oracle does not announce layoffs
Oracle does not admit layoffs
Oracle does what Oracle perceives as beneficial for Oracle, this news isn't
Oracle has denied layoffs before even though they were happening
Oracle prefers small batch layoffs as opposed to massive 'let's terminate this whole dpt at once' kind of layoffs
Oracle has been moving away from anything hardware related for a while
A multitude of reports buried in the 200 messages below indicate that there might be something cooking, we had zero messages that 'looked' or 'felt' like insider messages that denied this
Anything on AWS' is getting annihilated lately
Just my two cents
My gripe with all this no one knows details but claims. Like what groups and sites. Just 50% of all hw claims anyone can say that.
This is not a joke, RIF will happen very soon. you are fooling yourself if you think it is a joke
This thread is ridiculous, I had never seen so many mistakes at the same time. Strategical, technical, operational, ..., it is a very good joke.
Probably why SC met with trump to announce something big...like a high layoff before Christmas for Oracle.
What sites or teams? Can you elaborate? Giving people good warning is good for this time of year. 4 weeks? Is Xmas?
This is not a rumor its true. The layoff will happen in 4 weeks or so from now.
See here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-23/oracle-cuts-ellison-s-pay-to-42-million-ceos-get-41-million
LE and CoCEO pay got cut. LE was pushing for an increase and got denied.
http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-ellison-oracle-will-be-more-profitable-than-ever-2016-11
LE, after being denied his increase and taking this as a personal attack, comes up with his new strategy of "we're not going to sell, we're going to rent".
If Oracle is going to rent instead of sell, and if this is accurate, then there is no reason to have an S or T series. M is their best offering, so they would just roll that into their own systems. For Solaris, if they are going internal, that means no more service contracts and development will be entirely for internal consumption to improve the cloud, and at that point it might not even be worth keeping Solaris at all. Oracle develops on Linux already, so why have both? Solaris is dumped. Oracle has already announced this path.
That means that if you are not M7 hardware, if you are not on a SW team with crossover application to Linux and the rental strategy, you are probably on the chopping block, and there really would be no need for a team meeting. This is just based on public information. You are looking for the "big announcement", well, there it was, on 16 Nov.
What will be the active projects? Any one know this?
Agree with you. Doesn't make sense.
I am an oracle hardware employee and this rumor is somewhat true. They have canceled solaris and our hw projects with no replacement. They didn't give us a number but I suspect 50% is close since we will need some people supporting our active projects.
Did you buy Red Hat shares before opening the thread?
I am kinda surprised they made it this far, to be honest. They were a shell of a company running off of unicorn farts 10 years ago. They just had the momentum and govt contracts to carry their asses this long. I'm sorry to see them go. I liked some of their technology. But they were really arrogant pricks.. and linux just ripped their nuts off in the enterprise.