Wells Fargo Management is NOT displacing employees with severance packages to reach 5-10% attrition. The company found a legal loop hole that sends employees out the door with zero. Management places an employee on probation with a plan for improvement in their job. Management decides expectations of job performance are not being met according to the improvement plan the emp!over signed, thus grounds for termination. No severance package. Involuntary resignation. Good luck finding your next job with involuntary resignation on your resume. So, if you are placed on probation at Well Fargo, suggest you resign immediately if you prefer a voluntary resignation. The company will meet their goal of 5% to 10% attrition by 2020 using this method vs. providing long term dedicated employees with an exit package, to assist with health care coverage while seeking emp!oyment. Ironically, the manager is saving the company money and will most likely be compensated for reducing costs. 2019 and 2020 involuntary resignations will increase substantially at Wells Fargo along with management compensation.
31 replies (most recent on top)
The lack of “due process” in the PIP or write up process is not just a Wells Fargo specific problem, but it is a problem.
I don’t see how it is good for the corporation to potentially allow a rogue manager to permanently blackball an employee who arguably could be a good fit in another role from the entire firm - especially since informal warnings are no longer expungable after 3 years like they used to be.
In 2014 all bankers within my “slower” branch were put on a PIP for not having enough “solutions” therefore not reaching the outrageous comp goals. My manager said he was required per our district manager . At the time, they explained it as a way for reach the branch goals ($$ for them). I’ll never forget how much shame I felt..... I tried to view my electronic record since it wasn’t brought up for awhile. Later on, my manager admitted he never sent to HR. Purely a scare tactic....
@1yep+17VPBcsA You really sound clueless. Most states are at-will and Wells Fargo can fire you for any reason. Sure they have to justify and pay for it in some, but it's a hell of a lot more time, work and money spent on someone who's on a PIP. If you're on a PIP they like you and are trying to keep you on, but you're failing.
When I was young in this place I had multiple opportunities to end my career for stupid reasons and poor work performance. I could have been PIP'ed at least 3 times. Thankfully my managers all realized I just needed some coaching and a slight change in work focus to right the wrongs.
If you can't be managed up to a reasonable level of accountability for the job you're holding by having every possible expectation laid out in front of you and documented, for months on end? You're out of your depth at this level.
I have been at wells for 15+ years. I know many people here and have worked on a few different teams.
In all my years I have never seen anyone unjustly put on a PIP. The people I have seen on a pip have always earned it. And those people always play the victim and blame everyone but themselves.
We had a team member on a pip who would work maybe 20 hours a week. Came in late, took long breaks throughout the day and headed home every day by 4:45pm. Work quality was horrendous. Constantly had other people fixing his mistakes.
The few hours the employee sat at his desk they b***bed and moaned constantly. A real energy s— for all those around him
The employee was fired eventually, and I imagine that ex employee comes on here and bashes wells and blames them for all his self inflicted problems
If you are on a pip, it is 99% likely you brought it upon yourself.
There may be the 1% exceptions where it is unjustified, but the extreme amount of documentation around a pip means a manager can’t get away with that.
So let’s stop being entitled around here, and start accepting responsibility
It amazes me when I read these posts. Wakeup people, you are cattle for the shareholders. The entire corporate structure has been designed to pit you against each other, and cripple you with fear. It keeps you coming back everyday and working harder out of fear you will not get what was promised, or you will loose your job. Take control of your careers and life, design your life to be independent of corporations. The time spent gossiping on this site, could be time you are planning your a life you control, a career you control, not rich shareholders using you for their gains. So, wakeup people, and make a plan move on from being cattle for the wealthy.
Again, people on PIP, look in the mirror. You need to stop being a headache to your manager and toxic to your team. Stop and listen. Realize you are wrong. In my experience it’s always the stubborn people who have to be right and in their mind they are perfect who are on PIP.
Now just do your job and stop making it so stressful for everyone.
I agree there have been folks put on PIPs unjustly. It can happen simply because of a manager feeling threatened or just not liking an employee. I have seen the supposed bad performance be a fabrication just to write the employee up. I know someone who called out the fabrications and went up the chain of command in their department. Ultimately, the write ups stopped.
"The reality is if you are on a PIP, then you really aren’t a great employee"
This is b.s. PIP's are used to manage people out regardless of performance and I have seen toxic managers PIP out people simply because the manager did not like the employee or that the manager was threatened by the employee. Seen it all the time.
Because WF HR sides with the manager in all cases, the manager can write what they want in the PIP with little to no documentation. HR HELPS managers write the PIPs appropriately.
Please don't fool yourselves.
In Google and other big companies, a managers rating come from how successful every member of their team is. Sounds like the managers on this board are more individuals too.
Correct PIP is such a pita. Document on a weekly basis what the employee was supposed to accomplish is what they actually accomplished. These goals must be measurable, and have been fully explained and communicated to the employee.
If i have to document step by step of what everything i want someone to do, just let me get rid of them and i’ll do it myself! Takes more time to
Document the pip bs than it does to do the job.
Our team had someone on a PIP. The documentation and hassle around it became so overwhelming and so burdensome that eventually our manager gave up, and his manager agreed it wasn’t worth the effort.
Pips are extremely painful for managers and managing one person on it becomes a full time job.
HR doesn’t run every single team.
The reality is if you are on a PIP, then you really aren’t a great employee
I love how the conspiracy theorists around here are starting to get desperate.
I’ve known very few people at Wells who were put on PIP. None were stellar. Many more who could/should have been put on PIPs weren’t.
PIPping employees is NOT difficult. And HR is working with managers to make it easier.
Wake up and see what's going on around you. It's despicable.
The conversations many senior mgr are having with their DRs are unethical. But it's all verbal and off the record.
Let's be fair - I doubt ANYONE who gets put own a PIP is like 'Oh sure I deserve it.' It starts with an informal warning the a formal warning then a final notice unless you do something really horrific. This has to be documented each step with meetings with HR every step.
Some of you make it like it is some nefarious evil doers out to get people. I am sure there are some cases but I feel its easier to make someone miserable then do a PIP. In fact once on a PIP you have to document everything.
@qbp+17VPBcsA What you mentioned is not a PIP. Yes, what you said it happening, it’s alarming. But that’s not the same as putting someone on a PIP.
It could be viewed that the PIP was an informal severance.
@asa: You are missing the point. The PIP was fabricated as a means to terminate an employee over 50 who returned from sick leave.
@dxs+17VPBcsA a friend of yours was given 15 months, almost 1.5 years, to fix their poor job performance. In 15 months they obviously didn't fix their job performance, then they were let go.
How the F do they feel wronged by that? They had over a year to pull their act together.
A very good friend of mine was just let go from another large company. She had many years of excellent reviews and then got sick. Within one month of returning to work, still not completely recovered, they put her on a PIP. 15 months on the PIP, and they let her go this past September.
She said they sell it like they want to help you, but it was more about cost-cutting and control. She was the highest paid person on the team.
She has retained a lawyer. 24 years of top-notch reviews and then she gets sick and they fire her. Suing for age discrimination and violations of the ADA.
Wells Fargo is a firm who has retaliated against whistleblowers. And HR has never stood up for employees. Do what they ask you to do on the PIP, but if they fire you: find yourself a good lawyer.
There probably won’t be a life-changing settlement, but a lawyer will negotiate a severance package for you to carry you over until you find another job.
Believe me, Wells Fargo doesn’t want any more bad PR. They will settle so that you go away quietly.
@zcw - As one of the posters mentioned we are talking unwarranted PIPs. If they are trying to satisfy the Rank and Yank and not have to be severance, making IC low performers is an option; especially, if they think they can get away with it and the employee will roll over.
Obviously you have not ever done a PIP. It is not as easy as you make it. HR makes you jump through a lot of hoops and you have to prove issues. Stop making it seem so easy - honestly it would be easier to just make someone miserable then do a PIP.
Once you start a PIP you have to be super careful so that the manager is giving them a fair chance
Let's get real.
We're talking about unwarranted PIPs being used as cost-saving strategy at WF. We're not talking about warranted PIPs.
As a manager, I've been instructed to start using PIP more aggressively, even for people who are good performers. If not great performers, start using PIP to migrate good performers to poor performers.
I've spoken with colleagues and they, too, have been told to do the same.
Corporate B.S. And if managers aren't willing to do the dance, they will be shown the door.
I'm not seeing much ethical behavior at WF anymore. Definitely looking for new job.
@qbp, as a lower level manager in Technology, I am not being told to change ratings to 2s. I don’t have a single 2 on my team of 12, and have never been told to change anyone to a 2.
All we were asked to do is have justification for ratings. If you warrant a 3, you get one, end of story. The conspiracy theories are really starting to get old.
Sounds like someone is underperforming. In the past it was almost impossible to get fired. Now the world has changed and you just can't clock in to collect a paycheck. We need more sticks in this place.
@nnj: You are wrong! This is happening more than you would believe. In Technology, Senior Managers are telling lower-level managers to change performance metrics DURING reviews so the manager can falsify a bell curve and force a "2" rating on the falsified low performer. For example, a team member (umm...employee) is given a project that consumes 100% of their time while other team members are working on multiple atWork/Jira tickets. The manager uses only the atWork/Jira ticket count as the performance metric so the team member working the project will get a "2" rating because they have no Jira tickets for the year. This is blatantly wrong to change the performance metric at year end to artificially punish one team member.
Lol! This thread makes it sound like this is happening by the thousands. It’s not. Anyway, all you PIP people , just wake up. It’s you, not your manager. Stop slacking. Be open to feedback. Look in the mirro. Stop making your team toxic. Stop giving your management a headache.
Wells can’t do this with all employees, but they will do it with some, if they think they can get away with it. Anything to cut costs.
It's WF's approach for setting up an employee as an "under performer " and then terminate them (disqualifies employee for salary continuation) versus laying a person off (qualifying event and salary continuation eligibility). It's disgusting.....
It’s definitely a PIP. In my past, I was hired to PIP people. As managers, we are acutely aware people undergoing a PIP are documenting everything. We do our best to provide guidance however, we are limited in what we can provide. The reason is the company hired the person for this role, was on boarded and should be able to effectively figure things out. Many do not or require extensive guidance that, even with documentation, it’s made clear these types of persons could not perform their duties without impacting many other teams.
The PIP parameters are interesting. Some managers take data points from star performers while others multiply your goals by 2 and expect results. The usual justifications are a person’s metrics and, if they are down or you’re on the wrong side of the bell curve then expect a PIP that would move you towards the middle-right.
If WF is shrinking then, like every other company out there, we have to learn how to do more with less. This starts with people being able to meet / exceed expectations and getting rid of the “consistently” at- or under-performing levels.
Do as @oyv says because that is the right course of action but also understand where you are in the performance scale so you can brace yourself for a PIP.
Are you referring to a pip? Is this something an employee signed
reposting ... very informative
Ah, the Performance Improvement Plan. In upper management, we call this "managing people out"
it will usually start out of no where. you start getting some feedback about your performance. it will escalate. you will start having weekly meetings with your boss. your mid-year review will summarize your "poor" performance, the feedback will continue. you will get no feedback on how good you are doing. it usually culminates in a poor end year review followed by a PIP OR they will put you on the PIP before your year end review. At end of PIP you will get put on 30 day final warning. By this time, its over but has been the strategy from the start of the process.
some collected advice I have received over from someone in legal/employee relations, someone who is in investigations, and from a couple of external employment attorneys. Read all this
Write everything down. Everything. Take detailed notes (dates, times, who was present, summary of conversation) of conversations and meetings with your manager or other meetings where your manager is present. Save emails and chats where you are having conversations and include those as attachments to your "notes" email (below). My advice, record your conversations, use the recordings to take your detailed notes, then save or delete the recording (consult your state wiretapping laws). It's a little work but it pays off.
To make your notes "official" send an email to yourself (work email) with these notes (include relevant attachments) for each meeting or interaction. Then, print this off, physically. Do not email it to your personal email account. If they are looking to get rid of you this is one way they can fire you for cause. If you cannot print physically, then take a photo of your screen that has the email notes opened up with your phone. Still send the email to yourself (work email) because it now becomes discoverable if there is any litigation.
Key is to show you are performing and that your manager is contradicting themselves, or providing you with poor management, poor direction, vague instructions, etc. You have to be able to paper these people to the point that they give you a severance to avoid legal issues.
Take notes on feedback you receive from your manager, the frequency of your interactions with them and if they ever provide you feedback or guidance. I know some people here who never speak to their managers for weeks. Note this as well. Use snippet to take a screen shot of your calendar meetings showing how often your boss is reaching out to meet with you for one on ones. include this in your notes email (from above).
Your notes will pay off. trust me. if you keep this up for a couple of months or longer there is no way in hell your manager is going to be able to recollect or refute things you have documented.
DO NOT contact HR. DO NOT contact Wells Legal. These groups are here to protect the firm and your manager. DO NOT EVER write a response to your manager and CC Legal or HR. If you contact HR or Legal trust me, they will contact your manager even though they say your conversations are confidential.
If you have been here a long time and/or are older, consult with an employment attorney to build a strategy and plan. Its worth the thousand or so bucks you will pay.