Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

This thread is a little dated but I’ll add my thoughts anyway. My boss had to give me a “meets” even though she submitted my rating as the top one. Her boss agreed and that person’s boss agreed with her evaluation of me. Ratings were brought down by the person 4-5 levels above me. My manager and I have a friendly relationship and there was no doubt she was mad too, for her team and also likely for herself. The people who reduced ratings to fit the curve have no first hand knowledge of our work product.
Bottom line - I wouldn’t dispute with your manager because she likely wasn’t given a choice. Nothing will change and whoever did give you your rating will likely hear about the dispute, a situation that won’t benefit you at end of year.

There has always been a curve but the slope was increased this year. For our LOB the percentages allowed of 4 (exceeds) and 5 (far exceeds) were lower this year than in prior years and we were encouraged, but not required to "use the entire range of ratings." Also, big push mid year to emphasize that expectations were increasing.

5's are frowned upon, it means you can't improve because you are perfect. If you have a legit reason to dispute you can contact HR, but the outcome is almost never positive. The rating is your manager's opinion and that is hard to change. If it's a case of bullying or retaliation HR will have your rating changed and your manager disciplined...BUT be careful to not get yourself added to the troublemaker list unless you can win. Otherwise you will find yourself out on your butt. Sad, but true.

Why would i dispute a five?

Amen new guy!

Oh my! some of you need to understand how the real world outside of WFC works. I’ve only been here 5 months and to read this seems like 4 and 5 were handed out like candy at Halloween.

None of this is based on effort it’s based on results. Period! If you are a senior level resource your expectation should be much higher than a junior resource. You’re supposed to produce more thats why you get paid more.

You want a promotion? You better be ready and able to handle the job day 1. You’re on the job training is in your previous role not your new one. If you aren’t doing it now don’t expect it.

5- superstar knocked it out of the park this year. Beat every goal. Might be in the wrong role and/or needs to be promoted. If you are doing this year in and year out you clearly have a manager that has expectation issues or isn't challenging you. You don’t walk on water and as a manager my expectations will be much higher next year. You won’t see a 5 again.

4 - you beat more goals than you met this year. Great job! Again, year in year means you aren’t being challenged or manager has issues. As a manager, my expectations for next year will be higher. You won’t get a 4 this easy again especially if you are in a senior role. As a junior or mid you are going to be stretched.

3- you did what you were paid to do. Good job! Be happy. You have a manager that knows how to set expectations. I’m going to stretch you more next year. I can get more out of you.

2- you may work hard but you are not producing enough. Probably have a good manager that knows what should be produced and realizes you aren’t doing it. You either are phoning it in or you s—. If you feel you are working your a– off and get this rating. You s— so find a new job. If you are being lazy then kick it up a notch or be prepared to find a new job. A good manager try’s to correct this prior to rating time and tells you you aren’t cutting it. If you are surprised by this rating your manager s—s!

1 - you really s— at your job. Start looking and find something more your speed. You should not be surprised by this at all. In fact, you should have been on a PIP and shown the door before rating time.

Okay re below: it looked different before I submitted. You get the point.

@1bux: whole post is great. My favorite part that brings it home:

1. C.T.I.O.N.S. S.P.E.A.K. L.O.U.D.E.R. T.H.A.N. W.O.R.D.S.

@1svq: That was a good attempt at defining the new as the same as the old.

"Take for exame, your job is to launch 5 new products and contribute to 20% revenue growth and you are successful in achieving these objectives - are you a meets or exceeds? In the old gaurd perhaps you get the coveted top rating"

1. In my group that would have been met, maybe exceeds.
2. I've never worked in a profit center, so it's been well known that the top rating (5) is never given out. That might be different at the well compensated level, but for the average worker it was the carrot to keep you chasing.

"Oh your products resulted in 30% revenue increase and it's material? Now we are talking and exceeds seems a bit more appropriate."

So a 50% increase in the expected revenue is only good for an exceeds rating? If the bank made 50% more revenue that would be considered only exceed by the market and shareholders?

Again this sounds like you're dangling the highest performance rating as the unobtainable carrot. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

"I walked into an organization who celebrates milestones over outcomes and lacks a bench because of poor coaching. It is well known that TMs don't get coaching and continual learning still lacks support."

Now we have yet another avenue for videos to help those with certain skill sets improve on them. Buying access to online videos is cheap, actually investing in TM's takes more than that.

You can try to spin it all you want, but most people see through the faux engagement that top level management is trying to present. SVB's call yesterday was the perfect example. People spent 1.5 hours listening to a bunch of fluff that makes c-suite management feel like they're sharing and engaging their organization but the vast majority of attendees wonder why they just wasted all that time for nothing.

Actions speak louder than words, and so far the actions say management doesn't really care and thinks TM's are not capable of critical thinking.

16. S. Yes it's an anonymous internet forum, but if you want to be taken seriously as a higher level manager you ought to review your posts before posting multiple typos.

@1puo: Thank you for coming back with that answer. I don’t bother with most, but you had something valuable to bring to the table. I’ve had a few regretful responses myself, like you said, something just sets you off on a particular day. Things I would never say in person. You’ve renewed my faith in the team.

@1svq: You have a tough job ahead of you, and I sincerely hope you and our current new leaders are successful. I want Wells Fargo to succeed for the sake of our employees. Because our employees have been through so much.

Your post is well-written and balanced. You may or may not know, but should understand in order to succeed: We have heard it all before. Multiple times.

Several years of new CEOs, no CEO, new branding and re-branding, overpromising and underdelivering, misguided out-of-touch “leaders”, greed fraud lies fines failures.... So please forgive us if we are not yet trusting of the new team. Multiple years of getting our hopes up, readjusting our attitudes to the shiny new corporate values and goals, only to watch it all fall apart and more execs walk away with big severance packages and stock options? It has been exhausting and crushing.

Do we need and want to move forward? Yes I think most of us do. But please be careful when you talk about pockets of toxicity and talent problems. We have been down a rough road, and a little understanding/empathy for where we have been will help you take us where you want us to go.

Employees have never been “part of the problem”. We are a “result of the problem”. But yes, we will absolutely become part of the solution when our new leadership team proves themselves to be ethical, straight -forward, truthful and worthy of our trust.

I am the same as the OP. My review always has me sound like I walk on water. But after the fact got a "meets" this time around mid-year. I have been pushing for a promotion after almost five years where I am now and doing the work of people above me for far too long without any reward. I swear the meets was just so they could save a few bucks by not promoting me...or as people have said before, easier to get rid of someone and save a buck. Then I see them bring in senior management for jobs that did not exist before previously.

ER is there to protect the firm, not individuals. Think back... during Sales Practice scandal when many WF employees were let go unjustly, who would’ve had visibility outside of the C-suite executives? That’s right, HR! Did HR sound the alarm bell ? Heck no! Don’t be a fool and trust that ER will look out for you as an individual. HR is rotten to the core at WF. HR is part of the problem.

This is WF getting ready to fire people for cause (1’s &2’s) and not pay bonus at year-end (3’s). It is not personal, it is all about money.

Appreciate the feedback - very fair and candid. Thank you.

I had a poor response, and frankly was disturbed by the thread. I've been watching this forum on and off for quite some time and this thread for some reason hit a nerve because it felt as if some are not recognizing that we must do things differently if we want a better result for our customers, employees, shareholders, communities, etc.

One should not feel poorly about feel down about receiving a meets expectations. At the same, if the behaviors below exist, we must end them immediately. Call ethics, speak to HR, raise the issue immediately because the items described in the itemized number list are unequivocally unacceptable. Sure, we have our go to confidents but that is through trust that I hope is built on results.

We are far from perfect. Be part of the change.

Hey @1rfv: I have to ask you- what is the intent of your post?

Since you refer to many here struggling to communicate, I want to tell you that your post would have communicated your ideas more convincingly if you had left off that first paragraph. The rest of your post contains some decent thoughts, but your first two sentences automatically discount anything you have to say after that.

So if your intent was to share helpful thoughts/wisdom with employees who are trying to survive a clearly tough time at the company, reconsider beginning with criticism.

I am reading many of these comments and no wonder we are in trouble. The lack of intellectual horsepower is clearly evident by the way many struggle to communicate.

All that aside, meets expectations is a good rating and translates to you did what was expected of you. Very few exceed expectations consistently, especially in the current environment. Did you increase revenue more than expected? Doubtful. Did you close issues aheaf of schedule? Doubtful. Did you satisfy a customer? Likely and that's your job.

Historically, our performance expectations are low. Nor have we provided our team members with continual coaching and growth opportunities.

Do you have regular touch points with your manager? Do you have developmental conversations regular? You should. And if you don't, take control of your career.

@npb: It sounds like your manager is placing high value on you if you believe the idea that 4's and 5's will be the safest.

Ironically, this is the 1st time in awhile I've gotten a "5" rating. I've been doing the same quality/quantity of work the past 15 years. The past several years have been graded as meets or exceeds...and I kept getting meets despite going above and beyond. I had a manager, 3 managers ago, that would give me the highest rating. It all depends on your manager. There is no continuity in the rating system.

i got a 2 rating, previously was meets but i speak a lot and am honest which didn't go well with these managers. Even when the work i did has glowing reviews but i was given vague comments about what i should do in meetings. Feels like retaliation but cant do anything. Embrace candor is not possible in this company.

@wxc here. I am lucky to have a good manager. Sorry to hear documenting doesn’t work for everyone.

I still would recommend doing it, though, there’s no downside. It’s good practice for any professional. Don’t let them tell you who you are. F them. And, if nothing else, the log will help you with your resume and interviews for the next job down the road. In the annual performance review, where we first fill out the self-appraisal, I’ve always gotten the impression that my manager was happy that I did most of the work for him😉

These are tough times - I sincerely wish I could come up with some advice/wisdom that would help everyone get through it. Just know that there are plenty of other companies to work for than Wells Fargo. Getting laid off and finding a job elsewhere might be the best thing that ever happened to you when you look back at it.

Not formally communicating that you are no longer being rated as an individual, but rather on a curve or competitively was a big miss by HR. The ratings simply don’t mean the same thing at all.

Go for it. Even if it won’t get changed, it will look like retaliation if you get laid off. Clogs up their wheel.

managers hi up are given expense targets.

with forced ranking, manager is making subject decision who can do the work needed, while we get to budget figure.

Those that are less productive are bottom of pile, as they can easily be replaced with 4 or 5 india resources for less than 1/2 the cost of 1 american.

If roles reversed and you in position of manager who needed to meet expense targets else you fired, what would you do?

I have been told that there was a curve ordered by atleast certain level of management... also I know of several including myself which had one level reported by out direct manager who was then over ridden by his manager and lowered the value considerably... (EG one person I know who was given a 4/5 by his manager was reset down to a 2 by the managers manager)... so appealing will really do no good...

uh, it does not matter how much documentation you have or present. ER's response will be to talk to your manager.

I had emails, chats, emails from peers, etc., etc. Significant amount of documentation that refuted everything line by line.

ER DOES NOT CARE.

You're not alone! I got a 5 review during my last 2 reviews, my performance has not declined, yet I got a 3... "meets".
They have watered down the ratings to make most people fall within their layoff matrix and spreadsheets.

For future reviews, start keeping a detailed log of your accomplishments through the year: met a goal, led a meeting, helped a co-worker with a project, made a suggestion that improved a process or saved money etc. It’s difficult for a manager to dispute a comprehensive list of solid facts and dates. Everyone of us should be doing this now. Take control of the process before it even begins.

FYI most managers don’t remember a darn thing about your performance. They are busy, distracted, sometimes self-involved, have multiple other employees etc. Use this to you advantage. Sorry, boss.

I went to 3 top performer conferences over my nearly 20 years here. That’s the top 1-2% (depending on the year) and I always got a 4.

Manager's rating was a "Meets" but warned me that it's very likely that future ratings likely to be lower. I.e., think there is pressure for managers to lower ratings. Slowly boiling the frog...setting the stage for lower ratings regardless of the facts/evidence. Then the lower "objective" ratings are used as basis for less promotion, less bonus and more layoffs/reductions.

I don't know of anyone that got a 4 or 5. I am in the same boat as OP, always exceeded and then this mid year review I get a 3

You will have no success disputing your mid year or your year end with ER. even with documented evidence refuting items in your review, ER will side with your manager, especially if your manager's manager supports them.

been down this road already.

manager can write WHATEVER they want with no documentation and you will have to deal with it.

Giving you a 5 was probably not accurate. Reset of expectations on what a 5 is, it's not working your tail off anymore, it's changing the game. Few people can do that.

Meets is the new 5. According to senior leaders, you need to find a cure for "the virus" to get an exceeds.