Been here 20 years. Held 8-10 roles of progressing responsibility. Managed for about 8 of those 20 years. Had a lot of managers along the way. All the work is generally the same, but the environment from team to team is much different and largely a result of management styles. I find that most of my dissatisfaction comes from working underneath leaders that have no competency of the area they lead. They don't understand the product, or the process, or the particular system of record that's utilized, etc. And when that 'lack' is coupled with no real desire to learn it and the approach is nothing more than complete and total reliance upon their subordinates, it makes for a dreadful work environment. Subordinates need someone to help make decisions and set the tone for directing work, etc, but when you work for someone like I've described, they are often so ill-informed/incompetent that even when they try to make a decision/provide direction, you find yourself wishing you'd never asked as what you receive from them is many times a ridiculous suggestion that's been tried and failed before. There are so many leaders who simply don't bring much of any 'strength' to the teams they lead. A great many simply inherited their responsibility over an area and the staff that came with it and have no real desire to 'learn' and become a 'SME' for their shop. I believe that if you're a manager of individual contributors at most any level, you should seek to develop a strong understanding of what your staff does and hopefully be able to stand in for them/back them up on occassion if needed. It may take time and you may not get to a full SME level like your staff, but if the effort is there, you can be a real asset to your team if you roll up your sleeves and try to learn what they do. Sadly, this almost never happens. It's like managers are ashamed that they don't know and don't want to have their subordinates 'train' them, so they behave as though their too high level to have to know anything. As a result, they're largely incapable of helping solve problems or even understand the root cause of problems because they just don't know the process, product, systems, etc. It's a real problem around here. We want to report to leaders who can provide direction, clarity in times of dysfunction and confusion, a sense of where we're going, bigger picture, etc. We don't want to report to leaders who try to appease us by telling us they are just as confused as we are and how they aren't getting any direction either, etc. We can manage up and ask the questions, but it goes both ways --- the managers have to be willing to do the same with their leaders. Most don't want to rock the boat.
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Managers are to manage. In other banks, there are people called business analysts. It is their job to elicit the requirements (user stories) to get into the details of the product or processes that are to be delivered. I was told the "business execution consultant" was to do this. In the 30 projects I was aware of at Wells over 12 years, I never saw one of these BEC people do the BA role. Since no one is assigned this essential development job everyone has to do the job (elicit, scope, and test the requirements). Results in the amount of rework were about double that of the previous financial institution I was at.
I told my HR facilitator (manager) this and was told to let it go. It was hard at first but then I did and just quietly quitted/ coasted the last 7 years before my blessed layoff and retirement. All the roles are messed up at Wells because no one cares about defining the business processes and products the "firm" needs to meet the banking needs of their customers.
This place isn’t really a destination for top talent. We get the cream of the crop from tier 3 US schools.
Too many managers do not understand the details of the work. they don’t ask questions of the people that do all the work on a daily basis. Therefore, they make decisions and agree to timelines that are totally unrealistic and not achievable. I will never understand why a manager does not tap the people who do the job have discussions and come up with a plan, listening only to the high-level Yes men is a disaster waiting to happen.
New manager here. This is a great roadmap of traps not to fall into. So: thanks. I'm trying my best.
The manager skillet you described is unfortunately a unicorn at WF these days.
Gee, I thought by now y'all would be on those agile teams with documented user stories (requirements) led by strong product owners with a strong vision of the product. Agile was supposed to replace the manager as a facilitator with a strong team with known roles. That's why we went to all that agile training back in the day. What happened?
Spot on. When my team raises issues with our "manager", we're told "not our problem". But that's because there's a basic lack of understanding of our roles and they don't want to learn or deal with it.
ccd+1pV4cCjX
That's how I was, moved out of the area that I managed well in into an area that I had no skill or knowledge and no real way of learning. I lasted about 4 years there and stepped down into a sole contributor role.
WF hires incompetenent mgrs on purpose.
WF wants "yes" men/women, not people informed enough to push back on the insanity.
Much easier to keep mgt in line this way. I'm surprised they don't offer incentives for lōbōtomies.
I could not have said it better. In my org I am a lead product manager and everything stops at me unless it’s HR related. However I do have an awesome manager who really does try to learn.
" we don’t have the right skills in the bulk of these jobs"
Yep, and I am sorry to say I am one of those people. I should not be in the role I am in. Can't move, can't learn it fast enough and my mgr is focused on managing up. Looking to jump if something opens up down the road.
Company needs to focus on getting better people for leadership. So many weak and spineless leaders, no vision, no strategy, no people skills. Even with alll the red tape HR stuff they have to do, we don’t have the right skills in the bulk of these jobs
@lbz+1pV4cCjX, well said. We want to work for folks who understand their space and can hopefully teach us something. Sooooooo many leaders approach every conversation like they are carrying a shield and your questions are just deflected away to go ask to someone else. My manager is the master of telling me of someone else I should reach out to for any question I ask.
with all the spans and layer changes most managers these days are just HR managers, there to approve time cards, PTO requests. and submit performance reviews. Their scope and teams span many different functions. It's the senior people on the team who actually have the knowledge and direct the work. Back in the day someone would work their way up through the team and eventually was able to be a manager. They knew the team and they knew the process, now we are just getting retreads from other institutions that could care less