when MD retaliates? There is clear documentation of that available, there are credible witnesses willing to speak up. Someone once advised to go to Ethics and not HR as HR will just bury the matter. Ethics may also try to do that, but Ethics reports up the Legal chain not HR. Will Ethics act in case they think there's enough evidence to stand in court if the person decides to sue?
Has there been a single case where an MD has been taken to task properly by Ethics - say being written up or anything else? How does Ethics investigate and/or close a case - they produce a report?
17 replies (most recent on top)
@107 OP here. The MD is as white as they come. From the Bible belt no less - where they claim they are so upright, so God fearing, so Church going.
I bet the MD is Indian. I bet he’s done it before. I bet Citi helped him get away with it last time.
Forget expecting Citi to ‘do the right thing’ and forget keeping your job and having the MD punished. Citi will protect Citi and that will include protecting the MD. With this company, it is a very long tradition, a convention even.
If he heads down something illegal and it has damaged you then the only course of action is to go to a lawyer. Citi has the worst culture of anyone I have ever worked for bar none and it is very longstanding and will never change until it is ultimately broken up and sold.
if you have good evidence, go to a lawyer or to the governing authorities. Its waste of time reporting to Ethics or HR. They are just puppets of MDs. You will only get retaliated.
Citi does not practice code of conduct or any of the workplace protective guidelines. Its all just in paper.
I don’t think Ethics will launch an investigation until the issue is solid. If the MD is an influential member I don’t think any action is taken.
I had personal experience at one of the Big 4, one of the Director is 2 faced and he was nasty with few female employees and sc--ws up performance review intentionally, so I found another job then I directly reached out to the vice chair and CEO and I got a response that they would launch an investigation and asked to provide proof so I did my part and left the firm. I don’t know if any action was taken on that Director but my ex colleagues confirmed that Director is still employed:-)
When the culture is toxic look for options to exit because you need to protect your mental health.
https://www.newsweek.com/campbells-soup-vp-mocks-poor-people-food-secret-recording-11097497
This is like the game Monopoly. Do Not pass Go, do Not collect $200.
GO DIRECTLY TO AN EMPLOYEE-SIDE EMPLOYMENT LAWYER.
I especially like the part where one of Campbell's "Values" and Mottos is, "We're a family. We treat every employee like they're family."
ROTFLMFAO ! Corporate PR BULLSH!T
You can NOT FIRE OR LAYOFF Your Relatives or Family.
You can choose to be estranged from them or Not speak to them. But in the end, you're STILL related to them !
That's why employees MUST GOTO an Employee-side Employment Lawyer FIRST. Spill the beans, evidence, complaints, names of witnesses, etc. With Your Employment LAWYER ONLY.
NOT to Citi, Ethics Dept. HR, Legal Dept., Managers, etc.. All of these Clowns work for the Company. They do NOT work for the CEO, much less the lowly employees!
They won't do a damm thing!! I have personally put in Ethics on valid misconduct and NOTHING was done and the employee(s) involved where actually 'promoted'! What a joke.
And with a company as big & well known as Citi, Employee-side Employment Lawyers will jump at the chance to take Citi to Court and get a Multi-Million dollar settlement.
Morgan Stanley, JPMC, and GS get sued by employees every week or every few months ! Just Google this !
I thought at the very least, irrespective what whether Ethics finds anything or no, they have to write out a report for every case and summarize the discovery points - whatever the person raising the matter handed in, what the witnesses said and so on. Ethics then makes a determination of whether any action should be taken based on the evidence in the case. It could be something as simple as a slap on the wrist like 'MD must take a special course designed around HR best practices'. And this report is then shared with 4 groups - the assigned Ethics leader who the investogator reports into, HR leader assigned to the MD, the MD in question, his/her boss and the department head to whom MD is assigned to.
Worse case could be that if the evidence is credible enough, the MD will still get away maybe with a hit on the year's bonus but might end up having a black mark on service record at Citi for ever hampering career progression. Dunno...just guessing?
OP here
Folks, thanks so much for pitching in with suggestions. I really appreciate it. Yes, I have sold proof and I wish I could give more details but it might dox myself. Basically, isn't the first time. I have everything documented, witnesses will 100% standup and speak up (no doubt there), the MD knows it will be me even thoughn my understanding is that one of the first things that Ethics does is let the MD know that there is a complaint and the gist of the complaint. They don't release names but the MD in this case will know. Ethics then tells the MD to not do anything else that can get attached to the case while Ethics 'investigates'...whether that be with a viewpoint to find some way to exonerate the MD.
Yes, I know I gave Ethics (and Citi) a chance to look at the evidence and determine for themselves if I have a case that can stand in court. Thanks to the person who suggested that Citi will settle way ahead of going to court. That part had not stuck me. I had also not wanted money. I just wanted this eggregeous misuse of power and authority punished. It is so blatant and breaks literally every guideline and moral code that Citi has - and Citi makes us plebs sit through quarterly or semi annually hours long ethics training while their MD's break those same codes without worrying about consequences. Money was never my intention - getting this shameless scoundrel punished was. I avoided going to HR and involved Ethics.
I am guessing that what I have to take away from this - on their own, Ethics is likely not going to do anything. Even if the evidence and witnesses are damaging to the MD in question?
To add to your wise advice, Before any employee goes to Court, the employee MUST Retain an Employee-Side Employment Lawyer.
Most, like 99%, will work on Contingency Fee. No out of pocket expenses for the employee.
Short answer: They'll look into it and in an amazingly short term they won't find anything of substantial value to support your claim. Remember who you work for; the same company that is asking managers to fictitiously rate performance lower to save money on severance.
HR, Citi Ethics, Citi legal exist for two reasons.
First, they want to know all about your suspected colleague’s actions that may cause Citi embarrassment, money or legal issues. Things such as insider trading, gambling problems, how many times they go to a strip club.
Second, and this is where it gets good, they exist to provide you with a false sense of security. Primarily to ferret out what information, proof witnesses that you may have that you yourself can use against Citi. Knowing this ahead of time better prepares Citi and gives them enough time for damage control or spin control. It gives them an opportunity to gauge how serious your complaint is, how serious the proof is ahead of time and if serious enough to “talk you down” or take counter measures.
If you have a serious enough of a complaint, something with enough power to go to court, why tip your hand? Why provide to Citi any proof you have ahead of time? Why give them time to prepare? Why not just go to court and they can look at the proof then.
Go to court, sue for harassment and retaliation, stress induced illnesses such as migraines, ulcers, hair loss, ED ( lol ) , blood pressure, mental trauma, sleeplessness, etc….. Sue for millions but be willing to settle for less.
Example: Sue for 5 million but state, you’ll settle for 3 so long as the offending MD is immediately terminated with no chance to come back to work at Citi even as a contractor. Key word is terminated, not garden leave, not a golden umbrella severance to where their feet never touch the ground but rather terminated.
HR, Citi legal, Ethics exist as advocates Citi, not you. Never think otherwise.
Sorry to say, I doubt they will do anything. I've never heard of a case where the offender was actually punished. I've had two cases in less than two years that were "proven" and "actions were taken" but both individuals are still here and don't seem to have changed. They're not even Citi lifers or MDs so going up against someone more senior with tenor (which also means they know where the bodies are buried) likely won't provide the outcome you expect. Keep documenting everything and, if you are laid off, go to an employment lawyer with it. If you go to ethics you're basically giving them the chance to refute all of your evidence. Don't worry about a case going to trial. 99% of the time, if the lawyer takes on the case, they expect to win and can do so quietly with a settlement and the company will stay quiet and expect you to sign an NDA. It won't become public.
Honest answer? Ethics will investigate and likely do nothing unless its egregious. The MD will likely stop whatever public activity triggered the investigation. Also, dont assume people will do what they say they will by speaking up. If the MD knows its you expect to be worked out of the company on the next round of layoffs.
@a2 I don't want to do that if possible. I don't want the next prospective employer (or the one after that and so on) to google my name and find out I sued an employer - the internet tends not to ever forget
Talk to a sleazebag better call Saul type lawyer. HR is basically the c-suite's butt.