Thread regarding SAP layoffs

@OP+1uGEgMoF

so... Your headline from 27 days ago: "SAP under Department of Justice investigation - Stock collapses"

Stock performance:
30 days ago = USD 230.44
Today = USD 232.32

That is one incredible collapse....

I'll say it again... Clueless.

@qtbu+1uGEgMoF

...and since you're playing the hits...
C'mon everyone... on 3, repeat after me...

1. ..2..3... TomorrowNow!

That's a golden oldie for you....

So, over the last few years.... Fines due to issues in South Africa... fines due to Export Control issues with Iran... and now the latest. Yet, the stock keeps going up and up and up... making you wonder if the shareholders really do care or not?

If you look at the price during any 1 day or week when bad news hits, you will think the sky is falling... and you will be the clueless one. At the end of the day, all the shareholders care about is if the company is shedding "dead weight" (the shareholders are the true dead weight) with layoffs and early retirement programs.

But, you know what? You market geniuses are right. So, the price keeps going up regardless of all of the fines, all of the issues with the Board. Who cares, right? This latest end of the world crisis is really truly going to be the nail in SAP's coffin.

I no longer work for the company... fell victim to the restructuring early this year, although managed to walk away with an ok package. I no longer have a horse in this race. But what I do have is a strong level of cynicism when it comes to the scruples of people who play the stock market. Fundamentally, shareholders are a--holes deep down. They'd lay off their own mother and replace her with 5 "new-hire-Moms" in Manila, if it meant that they were slashing payroll in "expensive regions" (code for "North America"... never for "Germany", which we all know is a moneypit.)

Anyway... like I said, you market geniuses are right. After all, the stock price just keeps getting hammered day in, day out...

@dous+1uGEgMoF It's actually called Lobby or maybe it was called Lobbying, or maybe even might have been referred to as using Lobbyist ???

Yes, these are big words and I know not everyone is familiar with them or what they mean or how to utilize them in their " thorazine " - but for everyone else, make no mistake, smart companies know how to employ them to get what they want.

I had thought of this possibility & I don’t think that you went far enough. Surely, it is highly likely that there are other actors to be considered. It has to be a conspiracy orchestrated by David Packard and Bill Hewlett, involving the government of Vanuatu and Commodore Computers Inc.

Have you considered upping your thorazine? Wow! Just Wow!

Does anyone think that Oracle, Salesforce...etc are not using their political influence to drive SAP out of the Govt and Military biz??

You know they absolutely are - they cannot wait to absorb this 700MM biz that SAP was doing with the Govt.

3d ago by Anonymous
4 reactions (+2/-2)
Post ID: @9cyz+1uGEgMoF

Does anyone think that Oracle, Salesforce...etc are not using their political influence to drive SAP out of the Govt and Military biz??

You know they absolutely are - they cannot wait to absorb this 700MM biz that SAP was doing with the Govt.

Alstom execs were jailed in the US for less serious acts of corruption.

Those who enabled fraud against the US government and military agencies have no idea what's coming for them.

Fools

This could get real bad.....

Just to put some perspective about what could be coming ,  this link is an example of  a  company caught overcharging US Govt & Military.  What's interesting is that there are similarities with SAP,    For example,  the company who was charged is also a foreign company.  They were involved  in overcharging on $50MM in sales and for this they had to pay  $389 Million in Penalty !   This amounts to a fine that was  7  times more than the total sales volume involved.

https://whyy.org/articles/federal-government-extracts-389-m-penalty-from-contractor-who-admits-price-gouging-military/

SAP is facing charges on 2 Billion Dollars of sales.  Given that the example is 10 years old and only involved food sales whereas SAP sales involves SW that could risk the security of the US MIlitary - Could we imagine  a penalty anywhere near seven time the sales volume of 2 Billion should SAP be found guilty?        I would hope CK and Hasso are taking this issue  VERY  SERIOUSLY. !

Anybody who thinks SAP Shareholders "don't care" about an investigation by FBI and Department of Justice on a 10 year overcharging scam on 2 Billion Dollars of Revenue is clueless.

Fact is a significant portion of SAP stock is held by Institutional Investors, Mutual Funds, ETF's... These organizations collectively have Billions of Dollars/Euros invested in SAP Stock. They survive by providing their own investors with Profitable returns.

Monitoring their investments is the heart of their business - Not only will they be watching, but they will be watching this investigation even more closely than SAP itself will be watching. They will not " be left holding the bag" and first sign that this is going bad for SAP, they will be bailing out big time before anybody else has a chance to dump our stock.

Just the news of the investigation was all over the Financial sites last week alone. https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/sap-stock-price-fixing-report-1209a375?mod=mw_quote_news

How do we get into these mismanaged situations all the time?

No question it's irrelevant to compare the stock to what it was a month ago when the investigation news was only released 5 days ago.

In any case, as was mentioned in the original post, the real impact on SAP stock ( and the employee base) will come "if and when" SAP is found guilty of overcharging the Govt on sustained basis for the last 10 years on 2 Billion Dollars in sales.

As was stated, if SAP is found guilty, it will have profound impacts both short and long term for the company, none of which will be good.

@6woy+1uGEgMoF

Actually would be better if you understood the subject matter first before posting.

The news about the investigation came out 9/25 ( 5 days ago - not a month ago), so comparing stock value to an irrelevant date is meaningless.

Since the announcement 5 days ago, SAP stock is down, conversely a competitor like Salesforce is up 2% same time period.

CK was this really you ??? How are things going these days ????

Stock is up almost 5% in the past month. Maybe do some research before posting something.

By the way, shareholders don't give a damn about this sort of thing, unfortunately. Mouth-breathing bottom-feeders have no integrity... and the stock market is just dripping with these greedy fu--s.

The real penalty for SAP won't be in the form of fines or paybacks, or even in being eliminated from doing any more biz with the US Govt & Military agencies.

But rather the biggest penalty will come in the form of lack of trust from existing and future customers who can spend their money with many other companies where they have greater trust in being treated fairly.

"Trust" ahh...... how well we SAP'ers know this word - seems like it comes at us from all angles inside the company.... too bad our Sales executives don't get the same corporate information the rest of us get.

Getting more serious now for SAP - news released today is that Carahsoft ( SAP's partner in this overcharging) received some windbreaker-clad visitors this week as the FBI reportedly raided the Reston, Va. headquarters of the IT, software, and cybersecurity services provider.

https://www.newsweek.com/fbi-raids-carahsoft-major-federal-cyber-contractor-1959033

They clearly are after SAP in this investigation. When the FBI is involved, you got some serious problems to contend with.

Exactly who in this NS2 organization is responsible for this mess?

SAP leadership is totally at fault.

Who sets up a subsidiary (NS2) and then completely detaches one from the other, so that there is no communication between the two regarding operations / sales activity / procurement of vendors and consultants, etc.... , separate internal SW platforms, etc...They were totally on their own.

So who is surprised that either the wrong leadership was in place at NS2, incompetent staff handling the D2D, complete lack of any oversight or guidance, etc... and so there should be no surprise that SAP is now in hot water over such a ridiculous organizational structure leading to a US Govt investigation.

Bad decisions lead to bad results.

@1uca+1uGEgMoF - it’s what happens when a once technology juggernaut becomes a loose federation of salespeople micromanaging and mismanaging everyone else to death.

Lloyd’s MO is to first cash his paycheck… then point a finger to condemn the people and act. When will he be held responsible for all of this?

I have been with SAP for 25 years and one thing I can say about the company is that there was always present the importance of the integrity of the company first and foremost.

It's painfully obvious that the people we have today have a different concept.

I mean it's pretty bad to rip off any customer, but scamming the US Government & Military agencies has to be the d-mbest thing I have ever heard of. This unit of SAP must have been on life support to do this.

Hard to get solid info on NS2, but looks like Gross Revenue has dropped from about 700 Million Dollars in '20 down to about 290M '24. Looks like there are about 680 employees.

2 Billion Dollars over a ten year period amounts to $200 million per year in overcharges - what is the annual revenue of this group? Is this 10%, 50%, 80% of it's annual rev?

Also, this was not a one time mistake on one sale, but rather a sustained scam over 10 years on all sales to US govt.

Who does this?? What kind of id--ts are we bringing into the company? is this the old, "anything goes to make a sale" mentality?

For sure once the smoke clears we will be out of the US govt biz and big O will send SAP a nice xmas present for all the business they will now absorb.

Hard to believe.

Stock back to 206 … DOJ investigation = bullish in this market

Looks like Oracle is about to pick up a ton of business!

The facts behind this investigation are pretty serious.

The information which has been made available via Bloomberg allege that the overcharging could have impacted some $2 billion in products and services sold by SAP to various government departments over the last decade,

Also it's clear that SAP is the focus of the investigation. Bloomberg reported that the DOJ has recently taken Carahsoft ( who SAP is said to have conspired with) to civil court request them to turn over internal communications related to SAP software, cloud storage, and related hardware and services. It's SAP they are after.

Should SAP come out on the losing end of a 2 Billion overcharge to the US Government it will have catastrophic results on the company.

For 10 years, "who" was supposed to be looking over all of this stuff??? How do things like this happen??

How many people work in this NS2 group?

Is anyone even getting held accountable for that cr-p? Feels like it happens at least twice a year.

Wow! Do our executives ever learn from all of the corruption - related lawsuits and settlements? We have to sit through webinars and complete trainings around this very topic. It’s one rule for them and other rule for us, which is stating the obvious, I know.

It makes me question whether CK (I wold also included the executive board, but there’s only half of a board now) ,will use this loss of revenue to justify a massive reduction of headcount in the US, leaving just sales and sone sales support roles?

As a previous commenter noted, we will be the ones paying the price of (Probably) $900M in lost contracts. Additionally, any federal government deals in flight will be dust and they can wave goodbye to future sales to the feds. The potential damage is enormous in its scope!

Clowns, crooks and confidence artists!

Under these circumstances, SAP won't be doing any more biz with the US Govt.

Think about it, those in US elected positions will certainly want US defense dollars going to US companies not one based in Germany - this will give them all the ammunition they need to curtail spending with SAP.

2024 not the greatest year....unbelievable.

Anybody know the financials on this group, NS2? How much annual revenue, profit...do they bring in?

just for those in other countries who may not know the set up in US. SAP established this completely separate entity, "NS2", for the sole purpose of supporting US Govt agencies and military.

To maintain separation, there was no oversight from SAP corporate, no involvement, no exchange of info, no nothing.... etc.

So maybe there is a lesson to be learned as NS2 closes down about giving a subsidiary complete autonomy?

Will cost SAP big time.

Somebody please call the supply room and order another big box of pink slips.

Aside from any penalties or fines SAP will incur, surely we will be out of the US Govt biz.

Is the "collapse" in the room with us?

Never good when DOJ opens an investigation and for DOJ to announce charges today means they are most likely accurate. Will cost SAP plenty if found guilty.