Thread regarding SAP layoffs

I don‘t know what is worse: CK-Fan or the nastiness of the discussion before him.

@2cr

I am always right, except for if I‘m wrong, like here.

Forget about the share price, some of you will be out no matter what.

I am always right!

Don't be like Jürgen Müller, be like Christian Klein and Dominik Asam.

Work hard. Focus on getting the share price up, else you will be out by the end of the year.

@28c

LOL.

For the very first time I have to at least partially agree with CK-Fan (stop the argument; the part about working hard for the board - no).

The sheer amount of name-calling, questioning others‘ motives, sources, intelligence… folks, do we really need to sweep so low? Is this how we want to interact, to cooperate? I hope not. I think not.

Stop it.

Stop the arguing.

Everybody needs to go back to work.

Work hard.

For the company. For the shareholders. For the board.

@233+1k33vjgv9 So called "The Equaliser" quoting wikipedia as a source is not only laughable but shows your own low IQ. Maybe you have done your BS, but what I have learned in my MS and PhD is that you should never quote sources from wikipedia, Whatsapp Journalist :D

Why don't you first go and protect your people in US who get $#0T every now and then in g-u-n violence related $#00tings and stop crimes against women and persistent racist attacks against afro americans, latino, asian and many other communities in US.

Give back the land to native americans which you european colonist settlers have illegally occupied. Return California, Nevada, Utah, Most of Arizona, Parts of New Mexico - Colorado - Wyoming which you have captured from Mexico in Mexican–American War (1846–1848).
So first STFU before you try to preach others from a higher moral pedestral d-mbwit.

@1ty your statement is laughable! https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/india

@1zg You actually went there didn’t you. You need to get your own house in order first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_women_in_India

@1zx Seen it all before and those ‘facts’ have been debated longer than you’ve held your BS degree.

They’re estimates based on economic modelling, not universally accepted facts. For example, Utsa Patnaik’s $45T figure is heavily debated among economists, because it doesn’t account for reinvestment or pre-existing structural issues in India at the time.

Quoting selective reports as “the gospel truth” doesn’t make the wider debate disappear. If anything, it proves the point that history is complex.

As for the proverb, sure, but it cuts both ways. Pretending that only one side of history matters, and dismissing every counterpoint as ‘asleep,’ isn’t waking anyone up. It’s just swapping one blindfold for another.

@1cy+1k33vjgv9 You have no facts to base your comments on, just holy gospel...
I will give you the facts -
Oxfam’s “Takers, Not Makers” Report – ~$64.82 Trillion (1765–1900) the money which britishers took from india

• https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-india-colonialism-history-reparations-wvfrglxdd?
• https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/richest-10-got-over-half-of-what-uk-took-from-india-during-its-rule-study-125012000037_1.html?
• https://www.livemint.com/news/india/richest-10-got-over-half-of-64-82-trillion-uk-extracted-from-india-during-colonialism-study-11737337373125.html?

Utsa Patnaik’s Estimate – ~$45 Trillion (1765–1938)

• https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india?
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/independence-day-how-the-british-pulled-off-a-45-trillion-heist-in-india/amp_articleshow/102746097.cms?
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/independence-day-how-the-british-pulled-off-a-45-trillion-heist-in-india/amp_articleshow/102746097.cms?

There are more references to check. But there is a famous indian saying -
You can wake someone who is asleep, but not someone who pretends to be asleep.

@1xj+1k33vjgv9 Nice words to say but majority don't follow it and are driven by their own biases: language, religion, nationality, skin color, ethnicity and many other factors which give them perceived superiority over others. Sadly US and EU still thinks they own the world like centuries ago and force others to submit to their demands. This so called fake superiority attitude has reeked into the psyche of a large number of common citizens of of western countries as well and mistreat others based on it.

Some recent examples from SAP Signavio are a dark reminder of the evil within.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-20/sap-promoted-manager-after-repeated-accusations-of-harassment
https://www.cio.com/article/3629432/does-sap-reward-systematic-bullying.html

Naysayers will deny it as always but the truth here is: a design manager exploited and harassed 5 or maybe even more female designers in his team who all came from different parts of the world, had different ethnicities, spoke different languages, had different skin color and followed different religions but still were targeted and forced to leave the company because they were not german and thus not smart enough to work at SAP. The manager who is also an AFD supporter, later on got promoted as a design director lived happily ever after!

This shameful behavior continued by another product design lead who harassed others female designers from his team who then had to leave the team but no actions were taken against him as well. Does that make all men bad? All germans bad? - No
There are many toxic female managers at SAP DE as well.
Lately this has become such a big problem within SAP which they are not even trying to solve. One bad apple ruins the whole apple basket and here we have tons and tons of it.

The old trick of turning groups against each other for great gain is all too familiar. But times have changed—wise, kind, and curious people across all communities won’t fall for it anymore.

@1nx+1k33vjgv9 Your blanket statement lacks factuality, understanding of the history and reeks of bias and prejudice against india and indians. Let's not go there, who has mistreated and exploited whom the most in history else you will lose big time. The time is gone when every word coming out of a westerner’s mouth will be treated as gospel truth. Let that sink in...

@1nx+1k33vjgv9 As the old saying goes: You can be the hammer, or you can be the nail.
You were the hammer for a really long time and the whole world which you exploited was a nail.
Now don't cry when your time has come to be a nail for the next 1000 years. You will see your dark ages again!!
他妈的白人狗屎殖民地美国人和欧洲人

@1b3 I spent sometime in India myself and found peoples treatment relative to their social.status pretty appalling as is the treatment of women in general. The discussions around Muslims and Chinese were not promoting inclusivity either so I guess we can all do better.

Language proficiency is indeed a requirement for leadership roles—that’s perfectly reasonable. But expecting someone in a German ERP software company, whether in leadership or a frontline manager role, to demonstrate Shakespearean-level English is not about communication, it’s about exclusion. For non-native candidates, this sets an arbitrary and unnecessary barrier. The purpose of language in leadership is to exchange ideas and manage teams effectively, not to play “you don’t know this archaic word” as a way of drawing lines. When language expectations go beyond practical communication and become cultural gatekeeping, that’s not professionalism—that’s discrimination.

@1b3 You’ve shared some genuine experiences of prejudice and they’re not to be dismissed. Nobody should be treated with casual/subtle racism, whether in Germany, India, or anywhere else. But much of what you’ve written confuses history, exaggerates facts, and ends up sounding just as prejudiced as the people you criticise.

• Language expectations in leadership roles are not racism; they are practical realities everywhere in the world. Reverse the roles and reflect honestly.
• Offshoring anxiety is about economics, not “hate” labelling it racist silences honest discussion.
• The $40 trillion figure you cite is disputed, and India’s pre-colonial GDP dominance reflected population size, not some golden age cut short by Europeans alone.
• Innovation has happened in every civilisation; claiming sole ownership of zero, Pi, distillation, or modern frugal innovation is inaccurate at best.

However, most concerning is your statement that “1.5 billion people losing their patience will be very bad for the world.” That is not justice, it’s intimidation. If your goal is to stand for equality, threatening entire populations undermines it.

I’ve lived and worked in Ireland, Germany, and the US alongside colleagues from all kinds of backgrounds. Both white and non-white, and I’ve seen prejudice in different forms everywhere. In the US, for example, a senior manager from South America openly favoured those from their own cultural background, sidelining others. In Germany, I worked with an Indian colleague who now successfully manages a large team in a critical role, which makes me wonder whether your stalled career progression was down to language alone or perhaps something else, like connections or attitude. In Ireland, being non-native meant I was the target of xenophobic “banter” that would have been grounds for dismissal had it been directed at a non-white colleague. And yes, I’ve also worked in a team predominantly made up of Indians where meetings often switched into their native language, creating cliques and exclusion. One of the reasons I chose to move on. My point is this: racism and exclusion are not one-way issues. They exist across all cultures, and no group has the moral high ground. If we’re serious about inclusion, it starts with recognising that truth rather than trading in resentment.

@1b3 I know it's easier said than done but ignore the racist id--ts. I come from a European country that at some point became the center of outsourcing for Western companies. The xenophobic comments were awful back then. I work very closely with Indians and other Asian folks and they are all super smart and totally on par with the rest of the company.
Yes, there are some cultural differences (you guys tend either not be assertive or you are too argumentative, nothing in between, but that's it - that's a difference, not something negative). The only issue I see potentially with Asian people working for the Western markets is the language - I know you speak plenty of India-based languages + English but for a customer in France or Germany or Spain it's not enough.
I like my Indian peers more than American ones - we share the same sense of humor and work ethics.
I know it may not be meaningful for you, but Europe is not a monolith and there are many of us who appreciate you and other folks from APAC.

Hi,

I am an Indian working in the SAP Bangalore campus as an Engineering Manager but will leave the company in a couple of months. I have been with SAP for the last 7 years. I also had the opportunity to work in US briefly for a couple of years - not with SAP and not as a replacement for a US citizen or a green card holder. I was there not on H1B visa but on a L1 visa through an internal company transfer because the teams in US believed I could solve a problem they had. That was the only thing that mattered to them.

This was not my first visit outside India. I had also completed my master’s from abroad as I love traveling and meeting people from different cultures and regions of the world.

Later I switched to SAP and relocated to Germany where I was based in Walldorf and Rot for a couple of years. The experience was decent though I did face a bit of casual subtle racism and judgmental attitudes in conversations such as: “Do you plan to settle here?”, “Will you go back to your country?”, “Do you have clean drinking water there?” and so on. You can imagine where that was going.

I kept things professional in the office and canteen and ignored such crass questions and remarks. As the only non German native speaker in the group, work and casual conversations would start in English and then gradually switch to German despite people knowing English fluently and despite English being the official work language. Still I tried to adjust to the new cultural reality within the company and outside in the city. It was not very welcoming either and came with its own language and judgmental challenges where I was passively judged by my skin color, my accent and not by the contributions I made.

I paid 42-45% in taxes, social security contributions and took no money back from the state in terms of benefits while contributing to the pool that the state distributed as unemployment benefits, pensions, Hartz 4 and many others.

I didn’t mind too much such attitudes from some people around me until I developed a personal goal to grow and move into the leadership track role and move away from being an individual contributor. Then I realized there was a glass ceiling that non Germans and non German speaking individuals could hardly break through. I planned to change teams after my earlier cold experiences and interviewed for Development Manager positions but was rejected internally. Some HRs openly said I needed connections. Others said I lacked the German language skills to manage a German team while others simply ghosted.

Even within my existing team when the current manager left, another German colleague with less overall experience, maturity and global exposure than me was selected because of his language skills and connections. It was disappointing because meritocracy was sidelined in the hiring process. One can always question: who was at a bigger loss? me or the company?

Eventually I moved back to India and joined another team and then another team as a Development Manager. In this role I still interact with German and US teams.

Over the last six months or so, I have noticed in casual conversations that some colleagues taunt, subtly discuss and sometimes point out: “All the budgets have been moved to India” (which is not completely true), “There are layoffs in Germany and the US ~~because of India shhh...,” or “Now India will have double the capacity to 30K employees,” and so on.

One can easily read inbetween the lines and sense jealousy, anger and fear in such comments which is natural. But I want to highlight that many of these decisions are not made in Bangalore but in US and Walldorf. Thus it is very disrespectful, rude and racist for Indians who are working in India, Germany or US to constantly hear such taunts from German and US colleagues that “We are stealing their jobs.”

This website is a living proof not just from the comment of @k0+1k33vjgv9, but also from many others in different threads, of degrading and saying racist things against Indians and quite recently against Vietnamese after SAP announced investments in Vietnam. This has increased a lot and it is coming from so called educated people who feel threatened by the changing realities of the world. There is a patience limit to everything and when 1.5 billion people lose their patience it will be very bad for the world not just for US and Germany.

Now, personally addressing @k0+1k33vjgv9 and responding to his/her comments and breaking them:

“Can anyone tell us of a success story of outsourcing talent to third world countries and achieving some innovation like a cure for cancer?”

** You used “third world country” in a derogatory manner. Let me inform you factually. In reality, the origin of the terms First World, Second World and Third World lies in the Cold War era. The world was divided into blocs: the Western bloc (NATO & allies), the Soviet bloc (Warsaw Pact countries and allies) and the non-aligned countries - mostly ex-colonized nations of Asia, Africa, South America and some from Middle East that intentionally chose neutrality after centuries of exploitation, genocide, wars and abuse from the colonial powers of Europe and USA.

** There are and have always been many success stories from your's so called “Third World” countries. But one has to remove tinted glasses to see the reality. Before colonization, India alone contributed to more than 30% of global GDP and much of the world’s wealth was in Asia which gradually shifted to Europe and USA during the colonialization period. Colonialism by European powers and their crown companies like Dutch East India Company, British East India Company and many other European nations destroyed history, culture, native religions and identities and redrew boundaries on the maps which led to instability and wars up to this date.

** Financially speaking, in the case of India an estimated $40 trillion (in today’s terms) was looted by the British. The country was broken, artificial famines were created (read about the Bengal Famine), Indian soldiers were used to fight the Allied wars of WW1 and WW2 in Asian, African and European continents and many atrocities were committed on the common people in India. Even the word "loot" is a Hindi word, looted by the British and added to the English dictionary along with many historic artefacts still kept in the British History Museum in the UK which I have personally seen.

** In the age of AI, just do some open research about any of your's so called “Third World” country you look down upon and you will be pleasantly surprised by what they have contributed in various fields.

“I don’t think paying poor people peanuts in a foreign country is going to get us the ‘innovations’ and ‘talent’ we need.”

** There is a concept called frugal innovation. I advise you to read about it. India is the first country in the world to land a rover on the South Pole of moon and it landed a rover on Mars surface with a budget smaller than a Hollywood blockbuster movie. During COVID, India vaccinated 1.5 billion people twice in just one year. These are all tangible examples of frugal innovation. Indians have won many Nobel Prizes, invented the value of Pi and ZERO in mathematics, produced chess grandmasters, innovations in medicine and surgery, created fashion and beauty trends and now leading global Fortune 50 companies among many other contributions which you can do research starting from 8000 BCE.

** Innovation comes from staying grounded, having an open mind, being humble yet strong, persevering and solving real problems of real people. It takes burning day in and day out. It does not come from leaving the office at 4:00 pm to play golf at WDF (no pun intended!).

“Not when they are starving and are trying to put a hut over their heads!”

** This one will be very brutal for you and people like you.

** My grandparents came from a village in India. Even my parents grew up in a village in post independent India where resources were scarce but still sufficient to keep us happy with what we had. The villages were not as fancy or developed as those in Germany or US because most of the country’s wealth had been looted so your grandparents and parents could live entitled lives and judge others like us.

** My and many other parents slogged very hard. They burned the midnight oil and gave me education, exposure, values and humility so that one day I could stand with confidence and courage in front of a racist, low-life person like you and counter your vile remarks against Indians and other nationalities whether in the office or outside, on this platform or others. All the while you sit in your glass castle sipping alcoholic drinks (which by the way, were first distilled in India in the 1st millennium CE - a drink called sura - a fermented beverage made from grains, sugarcane or fruit). :)

** I still have a hut or now a cemented house in my native village. But I wouldn’t invite you into it because a piece of physical and mental filth like you still hasn’t learned how to wash your @$$ with water in a hygienic manner and would dirty my house :D Haha!!

@166 You’ve managed to expose your own prejudice while accusing others of it. Nobody here mentioned race, skin colour, or nationality until you did, which shows exactly where your mindset is.

History is complex, and yes, atrocities have been committed by empires, nations, and individuals across every part of the world. Not just “white Europeans.” Selectively rewriting history to demonise an entire group of people based on skin colour is not only inaccurate, it’s the very definition of racism!

As for your examples: the world wars, colonisation, and global conflicts involved nations from every race and continent. Japan, China, the Ottoman Empire, various African kingdoms, and many others also committed atrocities. Yet you single out only Europeans and Americans, ignoring context, nuance, or basic historical facts.

Finally, suggesting that entire populations today should be condemned or wished out of existence because of the actions of people centuries ago is not “justice” or “truth telling”, it’s hate speech. If your goal was to stand up for oppressed people, you’ve done the opposite by proving you’re no different from the ignorance you claim to oppose.

@k0+1k33vjgv9 FYI you piece of entitled white $#|T from US or Walldorf - throughout last +500-600 years, white sc-m of Europe has looted and exploited the people and resources of Asia, Africa and Americas. Enslaved them, did genocide on them, took away their honor, homes, land and women. Didn't gave any reparations for their crimes against humanity. The "so called" flag bearers of human rights have wiped natives from North America, Australia, New Zealand and many other places and established white European sc-m in USA.

Just because they, the oppressed people are trying to respectfully rise again by lifting themselves up with their hard work and can do a better job than you, you feel threatened and look down and talk down on them only shows your insecurity. During WW2 US nuked Japan because according to them Asian lives were cheap. They wouldn't have dared to do it on their fellow white $#|T brethren of Europe. If they would have then garbage of the world like YOU wouldn't have existed on the face of this world and the world would have been a better place for the rest of humanity!

@j5 Can anyone tell us of a success story of outsourcing talent to third world countries and achieving some innovation like a cure for cancer? I don't think paying poor people peanuts in a foreign country is going to get us the "innovations" and "talent" we need. Not when they are starving and are trying to put a hut over their heads!

@gx Couldn't believe someone literally asked the question around burning out for a "German millionaire". That was hilarious. But on a serious note, we are losing great people at this company due to burnout, and the Microsoft people removing entrenched management. I wasn't sure whether he was implying that we ought to resign.

yeah, they have decided to take "tell it like it is" to mean be honest with the little serfs, we don't give a flying f about you, we can replace you with cheap poverty stricken people in vietnam how wont whine and complain so su-k it up and take it. The company culture of quiet inovation in the background, respectful of your collegues and the value we all bring has been usurped by microsoft ex employees and mba wonks

Mohammed rated each question asked (like, I don’t agree with the premise of this question, or that is a good question, etc) - so right off the bat you get his personal take on the validity of the question itself - kind of pretentious or dismissive (or both). Then onto an explanation that refutes the question (like the question is 100% misguided). At one point, his answer was ‘there are plenty of companies out there, you can leave if you wish’). I would say SAP culture is getting more hardball

can somebody elaborate on this. i missed the call