Did more people take it than you expected, or less? I'm surprised by how many are cutting and running. I don't blame them for doing it but it feels like too little too late.
Some people who have been entrenched in leadership roles here are exiting and I'm glad to see it. But that means some kind of reorg in a few areas is to be expected.
“Hmm. 330 + 452 = 782, not 852. Do you know if there were 70 non-respondents?”
Hahaha! No, that was me. The columns have no totals. I counted the tick marks by hand (success) and then managed to sc--w up the simple addition at the end. Moral: I shouldn’t attempt arithmetic late at night. You’ll all be relieved to know I did not, in fact, write software while at SAS. 😉
@2xp+1jspvgpeb
Hmm. 330 + 452 = 782, not 852. Do you know if there were 70 non-respondents?
Hard numbers
Which is, supposedly, par for the course. The exercise will be repeated until only the best and brightest remain.
Hard numbers from the 2021 VRBP follow. An anonymized enumeration (by age and job title) of VRBP-eligible employees by “self-selected” and “not selected” occupied the final 18 pages of the separation agreement. The word was that everyone who took the VRBP was approved, and so these columns should correspond to “yes” and “no” responses to the VRBP in 2021.
Yes: 330
No: 452
Total: 852
“ Too obscure for you, or before your time, John)”
Yes and Yes. And I’m pretty confident not worth my time to look up. Keep it up Ronald (great communicator and wanna be cowboy).
You want a pickle, Mr. (or Ms.) Lucky? (Too obscure for you, or before your time, John).
“ Gray area … depends on your financial circumstances, employability, how much longer you want to work, …”
The sad thing on this site it is actually hard to tell when someone is serious versus gaslighting.
I think I detect a note of humor in that response. If so well done it is pretty funny in a subtle kind of way(which I like).
“ In this job market, if you're over 55, that's a perfectly reasonable decision”
What if you are 54? Not reasonable?
Gray area … depends on your financial circumstances, employability, how much longer you want to work, …
“ In this job market, if you're over 55, that's a perfectly reasonable decision”
What if you are 54? Not reasonable?
In this job market, if you're over 55, that's a perfectly reasonable decision.
“ I will languish here until the paychecks stop or the package comes!”
Most impressive
I will languish here until the paychecks stop or the package comes!
“ Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?”
Umm it’s definitely you. No I’m not John Wayne…weird question.
What exactly about what I said did you disagree with that triggered such a super lame attempt at name calling.
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?
@1zb+1jspvgpeb Only thing stopping you from posting yours is you. Make your own luck instead of expecting the universe to do it for you.
All the lucky ones posting their goodbyes to Linkedin now!
What is total headcount now?
Must be heading toward 11,000.
So 200 people taking retirement frees up what? 60 million a year?
“ Was told approximately 200, out of approximately 1100 eligible, took the latest VRBP.”
18% of 1100 is only 198. Not impressive.
Was told approximately 200, out of approximately 1100 eligible, took the latest VRBP.
"Their business model is to slash expenses and milk the cash cow until it’s dry.
JMP does not fit that business model. But it could be made to fit."
JMP should have been put up for sale independently from SAS. That would have been best way for JMP to control their own destiny. But that did not happen. Thus an increased chance that a buyer who buys declining assets will either immediately sell JMP - or milk that small cash calf until it is dry.
“ You can verify JMP’s 5-10% ARR growth by talking with anyone in the JMP Division. JMP has a Sales Kickoff every year, and their target goes up every year. They usually hit it or come close.”
Why on earth would you talk to someone at JMP when you can get anonymous people on the layoff.com to make up a JMP ARR for you.
10% of 1 million is only 100k. Not impressive.
You can verify JMP’s 5-10% ARR growth by talking with anyone in the JMP Division. JMP has a Sales Kickoff every year, and their target goes up every year. They usually hit it or come close.
“New buyers will slash expenses and only invest in preservation of products that align with SAS biz model and JMP has never aligned.”
That was not JMP’s decision. If they had been allowed to enter the BI market, or the Cloud, they could have made more money. But that would have competed directly with SAS.
Whoever buys SAS will surely try to sell off JMP. In theory, they could sell it to someone who invests to take it into those markets. But those markets are well saturated with competing products now. It’s late.
Whoever buys SAS will probably make no significant investments. The likely buyer is a company like Broadcom that specializes in declining software revenue streams. Their business model is to slash expenses and milk the cash cow until it’s dry.
JMP does not fit that business model. But it could be made to fit.
"JMP Revenues have grown steadily, 5-10% each year."
If true, then JMP could be one of the first products new buyers sell. Especially if JMP expenses are high like many speculate. New buyers will slash expenses and only invest in preservation of products that align with SAS biz model and JMP has never aligned. It is the red headed step child of SAS products.
JMP Revenues have grown steadily, 5-10% each year.
You're right: that's the opposite of the SAS business model! 😂😂😂
"A buyer probably will at least try to sell JMP, to see if they can get a good price. If they can’t, then they’ll look to reduce the redundancies."
It is hard to imagine that a buyer would have any interest in permanently retaining JMP in the SAS portfolio because JMP brings in less than 5 percent of total revenue. That kind of juice is not worth the squeeze.
Under new owners, JMP will become a fully independent subsidiary with zero costs subsidized by SAS. That will persist only long enough for JMP to be sold. It just doesn't fit into the SAS business model.
“A buyer will immediately reduce all the... redundancy, i.e. JMP sales, JMP marketing, JMP HR etc. That was probably allowed only to keep JS in his own little sandbox.”
JMP Sales and Marketing were created because SAS Sales and Marketing could not / would not sell JMP.
JMP is a technical product, for scientists and engineers. JMP Sales and Marketing includes people with advanced degrees in technical fields. They need those technical backgrounds to understand their customers.
SAS Sales and Marketing is rewarded for bringing in dollars. They not only lacked the ability to sell JMP, but had incentive to focus on other, less technical products because they were easier to sell.
JMP’s HR, Legal, and other staff were created recently, to make JMP an independent subsidiary. That makes it easy for a potential buyer to sell JMP if desired.
A buyer probably will at least try to sell JMP, to see if they can get a good price. If they can’t, then they’ll look to reduce the redundancies.
JMP should be covering ALL their expenses and be the pilot project for GAAP.
Doing that might reveal that it costs 158million to make 152million.
“ JMP is enjoying a level of corporate compassion that is unheard of in a public company.”
A tiny amount of research will show that it is FAR from unheard of in public companies
“ A buyer will immediately reduce all the previoicited redundancy”
I’m not even a buyer and I want to reduce all things previoicited…
"SAS has separated JMP cleanly into a subsidiary so that a buyer can easily spin it off. But a buyer might alternatively see a way to cut costs."
A buyer will immediately reduce all the previoicited redundancy, i.e JMP sales , JMP marketing, JMP HR etc. That was probably allowed only to keep JS in his own little sandbox.
JMP is enjoying a level of corporate compassion that is unheard of in a public company. All of that will be unwound immediately by the new management.
Good luck anon @11c+1jspvgpeb
“I've always believed that JG was willing to lose millions every year if it kept JS out of his hair.”
Agreed on that also — and he certainly is losing millions.
The Scientific/Desktop and Business/Cloud markets don’t have a lot of overlap. So the separation of JMP and SAS minimized competition, although they do compete some.
More significant to a buyer will be the separate Sales and Marketing staffs, separate Legal staffs, separate HR staffs, etc. Everything is duplicated for SAS and JMP. That’s hundreds of salaries.
SAS has separated JMP cleanly into a subsidiary so that a buyer can easily spin it off. But a buyer might alternatively see a way to cut costs.
For now, JMP employees are safe. They’re bringing in ~5% of SAS Institute’s revenue, with only ~4% of its staff, in their little Scientific / Desktop niche.
How large is the Business / Cloud market? 1,000 times larger?
That was SAS’s job.
“ JMP depended on many things provided by SAS employees.”
So does every other SAS product.
“Revenue per employee is a flawed metric.”
You have not provided a better one.
“JMP copied SAS code. JMP competed with V9 .”
That’s true, and it’s a tragedy. But it’s what the owners agreed.
They also agreed to restrict JMP’s market. JMP sells to scientists and engineers — not to the far larger business market.
Also, JMP is restricted to the Desktop. They have no product in the Cloud.
Under these restrictions, and with JMP headcount less than 5% of SAS headcount, SAS can’t compete?
We agree that’s a problem.
"As with SAS, 2/3 of JMP profits go to the majority owner, 1/3 to the minority owner — and he would never be given so many people if it were not profitable."
I've always believed that JG was willing to lose millions every year if it kept JS out of his hair. JMP competed with V9 SAS. JMP copied SAS code. JMP depended on many things provided by SAS employees. Revenue per employee is a flawed metric.
Today is the day. Farewell friends. Thank you for all you have done for SAS over the years.
“Why did you jump to those numbers being an indication of JMP doing better?” Because JMP is doing better, in revenue per employee. That metric is of great interest to any buyer.
Certainly, margin and profitability are more important. But I don’t have those numbers.
All I can tell you about profitability is this: if you know the relationship between the majority and minority owners, you know that the minority owner does not have authority to hire ~500 people.
Some people on this site believe the two owners operate independently. But that's not true. SAS is not a 50-50 partnership.
As with SAS, 2/3 of JMP profits go to the majority owner, 1/3 to the minority owner — and he would never be given so many people if it were not profitable.
“ SAS: ~$3B / ~12,000 = $250K ARR per employee
JMP: ~$150M / ~500 = $300K ARR per employee”
Why did you jump to those numbers being an indication of JMP doing better?
Don’t get me wrong I’d rather have a high ARR per employee than not but that is a pinprick of a data point and does not indicate that one is doing better than the other. Margin and profitability is more important.
I’’ll take 6% of 3 billion over 10% of 150 million every day of the week.
A lack of reporting granularity? Nonsense! That's what SAS Financial Management is for. Its the homegrown tool for just such reporting.
"Do not know of any layoffs ever happening to anyone in JMP."
When there are layoffs in JMP, you will know that the canary died in the coal mine.