Despite crackdown starting in January, I'm never going back to the office.
29 replies (most recent on top)
@1mwb+1k1hJvU0 (And anyone else grasping at thin air)
You absolutely can be disciplined, and your performance rating and bonus impacted for not going back into office. I am a manager, and I have received written guidelines from HR twice in the past month to that effect. It can be taken into account as one factor of 2022 performance (it can’t be a unilateral knock out like risk is, but it can be a downgrade to your rating and bonus). For 2022 they are saying managers are permitted to take it into account. In 2023, it’s going to be tougher - there was also written guidance on the path to take with those that still refuse to comply - and yes, it results in the usual performance progression -documented conversations, formal warnings, PIP, termination. So yeah, it will take a while so if you’re going that route - get your next opportunity lined up.
For those citing “policy” - the policy is - you perform your duties as requested, including where you do them. Not doing so is considered insubordination and/or a voluntary resignation.
@1dsi+1k1hJvU0 While this may be true in your group, it's certainly not in mine. I'm a manager and there are no points and no one's bonus was affected by RTO.
If your employer does not pay to protect you, you have choices to make. People will have to organize in groups if they are to deal with what is ahead. The workers are not pushing the employers. the challenge is for you to control your lifestyle, hours, schedule by getting what you want from employers, clients and the rest, our health is in our hands, i can't fathom giving that much control of my life to a bank
If implemented this will take time. I won’t RTO, not because I don’t think it has teeth, I expect to be fired for not going in. But they won’t be able to shytecan you on the first no show. It’ll take multiple instances and employee file documentation.
Those thinking they won’t use RTO for comp decisions because it’s “retroactive” or hasn’t been clearly spelled out seem to forget the retroactive and never mentioned comp decisions of the recent past.
2020 comp cycle (paid in 1Q21): anyone making $150k or more gets zero merit. Announced only after being shamed by rumors in 4Q.
2021 comp cycle (paid in 1Q22): same deal for those at $200k base watermark. Never announced because those who started the rumors in 4Q20 were the ones impacted a 2nd year in a row in a move widely believed to be punitive for forcing the 4Q20 rumor confirmation.
To those saying that you'll be terminated if you don't comply...
Sure, as long as everyone else that violated RTO throughout the entire bank also loses their job after about the same amount of time of noncompliance.
RTO is not work group dependent. The RTO guidelines/policy are bank-wide. Wells simply can't weather that many lawsuits all at once if discipline isn't equal, and it never is. Employees hate RTO and will not hesitate to start (or join) a class action lawsuit if they're disciplined and have knowledge that others weren't (which will almost certainly be the case, and Wells knows it).
That's the real reason why greater efforts/threats haven't been made. The bank knows that it needs to hand out discipline equally, but knows that's very difficult to do. Even now, the spooky messaging is all verbal and suggestive - nothing concrete.
Fellow employees, never stop fighting RTO. Never make it easy for the senior "leaders". Always make their lives as difficult as possible when it comes to RTO, just like they do to you.
No one would fight RTO if the reasons we've been given were valid, demonstrable, etc., but they're not - they're the opposite. We can all easily see that RTO is worse than pointless when it comes to productivity, engagement, etc.
RTO is not a specific policy, but insubordination is. You defy your manager (regarding work procedures), you can be terminated.
Whatever management does with RTO, employees will largely comply. The unfortunate reality will be that in-person collaboration, innovation, career advancement, and all that other BS benefits they spew will not increase as a result of it.
I worked for this company 100% on-site for more than 12 years.....made paltry raises and only moved a few departments (thinking that loyalty would pay off - nope), primarily within the same business group. All roles were of increasing responsibility and several were within management.
In the past handful of years, primarily being remote, I've had massive jumps in income (nearly 100% increase) from moving business groups and taking positions that were recommended to me by colleagues I'd built relationships with 100% virtually.
The notion that in-person, face-to-face will help my career is just simply false.
Have any departments been assigned to measure productivity and quality when employees WFH vs when they are in the office? It seems that should be the determining factor? Aren’t people with more time, sleep, money and family time generally more productive? There has always been a vibe that WF literally hates their employees and RTO for no real reason just proves it.
while they are starting to push it more and I don't doubt it will be enforced where applicable in 2023 unless they had it specified in our goals for 2022 they would be hard pressed to take much punitive measures coming into 2022 review and comp. I'd say there will be some big bullets around it on our 2023 goals and perhaps more descriptive policy language.
This is a valid post, those of us in working for Master Bates in Tech Control got an email this morning from Nate's hired thug saying exactly that and this fe--s is back on the table. They want to see if they can get anyone else to quit before bonuses apparently.
The Tech RTO problem boils down to this:
Executives want to see the people they pay most. They don’t care that you can do your job from a van by the river with a hotspot. They are sending the tech jobs offshore to save money (theoretically) and the reasons they don’t care about SEEING those people are that they’re cheaper, they’re offshore and they go into an office, no questions asked.
Is it old fashioned? Yes. Does it make any sense? Not really. Has that ever stopped the C-suite before. Hold on while I catch my breath from laughing…..
@1mwb+1k1hJvU0 Tough talk from the keyboard. Remember relocation to Hubs was not a policy either but before Covid people who refused to relocate were terminated.
RTO will absolutely be a factor in bonus decisions. People have been assigned “points” since the official reopening of the office locations. The more points you have, the better you will do on bonus. I have not heard any impact to merit.
@1mwb+1k1hJvU0 As much I wish this to be true, I am skeptical. Remember that employment at WF is at will, meaning it can be terminated at any time with or without reason. Certainly work location or not coming into the office could be justified for discipline or termination under this.
Also remember that our management has the tendency to shift performance measures right before review time, and with little transparency. So it wouldn’t surprise me if RTO popped up in the performance criteria somewhere.
What am I missing?
@1ugw. Young people are demanding WFH arrangements as a matter of course so if WF hopes to hire those cheap young folks they so covet, they need to change their tune.
CHECK THE FACTS. RTO IS NOT A POLICY!!! It is a request. You cannot be fired or receive corrective action for not going in the office! It cannot be a part of your merit or performance bonus either. The managers have been told this and if anyone’s merit review is affected or your manager notes that you didn’t get the 2% increase (for example) because you have not RTO call ER! This is a class action law suit waiting to happen. You will NOT find any reference to RTO being a policy. Don’t be fooled and don’t be manipulated!!!
I had a check in call with contract company last week. Seeing if we have budget to get headcount from them (we don’t) but the reps I’ve had play the long game and, surprisingly, are pretty transparent about what’s going on in other parts of the company and other companies. One I’ve been working with for several years asked me to get them my own resume when I’m ready to jump - they do perm placement and conteact.
Anyway, I asked what the RTO situation was across their client base - I’m in tech. They estimate that people demanding full WFH are eliminating 70% of opportunities available. People who demand hybrid are eliminating around 40% and people who are ready for RTO have best chances from the jump.
Something to consider as the hiring environment gets more challenging.
Yeah it's policy alright, a mo--nic policy. And no, I won't shut up about it. Candor is fun ain't it.
and FWF
@1jfn send your own position there. They're capable babysitters.
Babysitting is half my job with a bunch of entitled babies whining about everything especially doing any work. I have no issues sending position to I and P. At least they work hard.
This perm WFH employee wishes the rest of you good luck in fighting this outdated chattel system. They can't fire all of you, so stick together and stay strong. You got this.
Couldn’t agree more. FRTO and all the losers on this chain supporting it. Get a life you f’ing clowns. Most middle managers are nothing but overpaid, glorified babysitters anyways.
with the looming recession, good luck with that attitude. go ahead, try and get into big tech. all banks seem to be doing this a lot more aggressively than we are.
Start aggressively job seeking by February you need interviews already lined up in your pipeline. Watch it get worse, you’ve been warned early!!
I’m with @iwa get the heck out. We don’t need or want you!!
Then leave & quit complaining. I’m sure that some company will pick you up with your awesome attitude.
Already started. Manager in the know on a reg high priority and no matter how you are performing you don't go in you are violating policy and you will be fired. No severance, fired. So man up, shut up, suck it up or leave after bonus.
In 2023 everyone will be meets anyway. F it, and FRTO.