Thread regarding Capital One layoffs

The above is kind of scary - getting terminated with cause for "work abandonment." How common is this?

Wow, great PL post. Imagine how many would not be put on PIPs/CP's if this PL and others like them would invest in their team(s) instead of trolling boards online and reciting company legalese. Get out of your echo chamber.
"Unless you have a law degree, don’t try to interpret performance conversions or coaching plan proceeding that way. I know you said you don’t feel comfortable going to HR - I hear you there as they often have a priority to protect the business first and foremost. " AND "Capital One is VERY experienced in what actions and proceedings they can use to performance manage associates. What you see in place today has stood the test of time, refined over the years from legal cases, vetted and perfected by employment attorneys and perfected..."
Sounds like the beginning of the end of CAP1, starting in Plano. Any time a company has it's hands tied by the lawyers, that company stops innovating...it runs valuable talent off, or doesn't give new ideas and fresh blood a chance to thrive. Add to that the current pressure on our loan originations, NIM and other metrics we really don't share with the rest of the associates anymore and the picture is clear: 2024 can't be rescued and we're in for more re-orgs and HC cuts. And for those reasons, I'm out this year. Good luck to all of you and thanks for the $135 stock price so I could dump my ESPP shares.

KEY. TAKE NOTE.

If you get placed on a coaching plan or a PIP read the below actions. A coaching plan is a precursor to a PIP and if it has lies and exaggerations you don't sign it in Workday. If the coaching plan turns into A PIP you never sign a PIP either. It's not used to improve your performance if it has lies and exaggerations so you've been set up to fail. Nearly 100% of the time no one passes a PIP. You tell them to let you go with severance and so you can get unemployment benefits. There is nothing to lose because you've already been targeted to be fired. So fight for your life.

If the company refuses to terminate you and provide you severance and unemployment benefits then you write an email to you boss and his/her boss and cc: the HR Business Partner for your team and accuse them of bias, discrimination, harassment, anti-semitism, racism, s-xism, ageism, colorism, lookism, disability, religion, and wrongful termination. And anything else including that you were a whistle blower for serious corporate misconduct.

Also, don't just quit without a job because you won't get unemployment insurance for voluntarily leaving. You want to get fired. And you simply tell your new company that there was a company wide layoff. Background checks only tell a new employer your last title and dates of employment and can't divulge any reasons for getting let go. Its the law. So you're safe.
34m ago by Anonymous
1 reaction (+1/-0)
Post ID: @1llo+1qYubGss

Your PTO is accrued through the year so if you quit in March you don't get the full PTO for the year. Your healrh insurance lasts until end of March, you can rollover to Cobra and bit will pay monthly fees near a $1,000 a month for medical, dental, vision.

Let them fire you so you can apply for unemployment insurance and demand a severance from them. You accuse them of bias and you're protected as one of the protected classes.

READ THIS POST

https://www.thelayoff.com/post/@anf+1qK5Cs67

TheLayoff.com

Thread regarding Capital One layoffs

Coaching plan vs PIP
What’s the difference between the two? Is there anyway to get a payout if given a coaching plan? I have no desire to stay or work for this micromanager and you can probably imagine how painful a coaching plan would be with an annoying micromanager. I’ll never work my way into the clique because I don’t want to play their silly toxic games. But I’d rather leave with some money if that’s possible.

15d ago by Anonymous
8 replies (last 8d ago)
1195 views | 19 reactions (+19/-0)
Post ID: @OP+1qK5Cs67
+19
8 replies (most recent on top)
If get put on a coaching plan, is there a way to instead opt for a pip, or not opt into the coaching plan and still get payed a severance?

8d ago by Anonymous
no reactions
Post ID: @6fuy+1qK5Cs67
0
I was put on a coaching plan with some targets that were not quantifiable. I exceeded the targets that were quantifiable and was still put on a PIP. I opted out and took the package. Since then, I sleep better, I have lost weight, I am no longer arguing with my family members, and my hair has grown back.

If they are talking about putting you on a coaching plan or putting you on a PIP, my advice would be to take a step back and determine if the work that you’re doing is valuable enough for you to continue pushing through against these performance plans. If they are, then make sure The details and your performance plans have measures captured that you can reasonably achieve in the time allotted. Even though I exceeded mine, I was still put on a PIP. It’s not a guarantee that meeting or exciting those targets will keep you there. But at the minimum at least it’s documented well.

9d ago by Anonymous
8 reactions (+8/-0)
Post ID: @5rnu+1qK5Cs67
+8
@anf+1qK5Cs67, you said it best. I applaud 👏🏼 you.
I don't think many people know not to tell new employees that they were laid off instead of fired. When this bs happened to me when I worked there, I kept thinking how am I going to explain this? You are so right. Never tell it, and companies only give out dates,l of employment and title. F Capital One. Op, all the best. I been through their cr-p. I don't blame you. Take the severance and get out of there.

13d ago by Anonymous
11 reactions (+11/-0)
Post ID: @1lym+1qK5Cs67
+11
To @aro+1qK5Cs67

The severance for someone fired on a PIP is 12 weeks. But overall severance for lay offs is based on your current level. For example, if you're a senior manager your severance is 7 to 8 months. Ask around what your severance is for your job level.

14d ago by Anonymous
11 reactions (+11/-0)
Post ID: @1sxb+1qK5Cs67
+11
I think you should think your situation through. If your manager is micromanging you it means hes trying to get you to quit or has marked you for as a low performer. You can either work extremely hard to defeat that perception. Or read the tea leaves and leave to greener pastures. Capital One's management for the most part is toxic , lazy and narcissistic. If you have unfortunately gotten one of those boses its best to part ways.

.....My last boss took ultimated vacations, never showed up to team meetings and then claimed our teams work and got Very Strong rating... that should tell you..... its just a game and you should leave. Even Dave Ramsey would tell you to quit. Take the severance and bounce. Theres better places dont bow your head to these abusers .

14d ago by Black Bear
19 reactions (+19/-0)
Post ID: @inq+1qK5Cs67
+19
How much is the severance package if you get PIPed out? Twelve weeks?

14d ago by Anonymous
9 reactions (+9/-0)
Post ID: @aro+1qK5Cs67
+9
If you get placed on a coaching plan or a PIP read the below actions. A coaching plan is a precursor to a PIP and if it has lies and exaggerations you don't sign it in Workday. If the coaching plan turns into A PIP you never sign a PIP either. It's not used to improve your performance if it has lies and exaggerations so you've been set up to fail. Nearly 100% of the time no one passes a PIP. You tell them to let you go with severance and so you can get unemployment benefits. There is nothing to lose because you've already been targeted to be fired. So fight for your life.

If the company refuses to terminate you and provide you severance and unemployment benefits then you write an email to you boss and his/her boss and cc: the HR Business Partner for your team and accuse them of bias, discrimination, harassment, anti-semitism, racism, s-xism, ageism, colorism, lookism, disability, religion, and wrongful termination. And anything else including that you were a whistle blower for serious corporate misconduct.

Also, don't just quit without a job because you won't get unemployment insurance for voluntarily leaving. You want to get fired. And you simply tell your new company that there was a company wide layoff. Background checks only tell a new employer your last title and dates of employment and can't divulge any reasons for getting let go. Its the law. So you're safe.

In the simplest case and I don't have all the details of your case here, I would suggest you go through the CP. And since it looks like you don't want to stay, carve out some time for job search. It is better to look for a job while employed. I don't think you should be spending your time any other way. The Tx people leader is again right. You will not be able to get out of the CP easily. If someone has wronged you (likely your manager) they will be impacted through AR but you are still going to be stuck with the CP anyway (unless in exceptional circumstances like retaliation). So, please prioritize your energy and time to productive use.

People manager here of teams in TX. I’ll try to hit each of your questions as best as I can. First, you may have any resignation notice you provide, especially during a coaching plan, not accepted in terms of the timespan you state as your last day. Lots of examples of the day notice is given becoming the last day for the associate. 2 weeks is more of a professional courtesy on the associate’s part and does not serve as a “locked in date” that ensures you have to be kept on as an employee. TX is an “at will” or “right to work” state so your employment can be terminated at any time without notice. In fact unless you work in GA, Fl, LA, or RI, all other states are also “at will”. On the flip side of that, you can leave too without notice and not be liable for any sort of breach of employment agreement if you are in TX. Capital One gives their “courtesy notice” in the form of severance and redeployment periods, even for some performance related terminations, but doesn’t have to legally.

You have medical coverage for the entire month if your last day with the company is on any day within that same month, whether it’s the 1st or 29th, but you will pay for it out of your final check as you would any other pay period (or potentially 2 pay periods worth of the employee portion if none was paid in for that month at time of departure). In other words, you have it for that month, but you’re paying for it.

Unused, accrued PTO is paid out on last check along with hours/days worked up to departure date. You will have the same deductions as normal for taxes, social security, even 401(k) with company match. There may be additional deductions if you have a negative PTO balance, insurance premiums outlined above, and potentially other items like unreturned or damage-returned equipment (laptop, phone, etc).

There is no “opt out” at coaching plan phase of any kind. I guess technically there is, but it’s just quitting at that point.

Not trying to be harsh here just stating facts, but far too many people have attempted variations of what you are mapping out and they are very regimented in how things are handled. If you try to “coast” or “quiet quit” to get through the remaining time in the plan, you will be served a conduct memo for work abandonment pretty quickly, which complicates things for you even quicker and have more negative implications I won’t go into here, but that additional step of the memo does nothing to extend your coaching plan, override it, or get it out of they way any faster. At times the memo is bypassed altogether and you can be terminated for cause.

If you finish out the coaching plan and are not successful, it becomes a PIP for 60 days. You have 5 days initially to decide if you will opt in or out of the plan. You can opt out of PIP at any point during the 60 days if you initially opt in, but an opt out is final (can’t opt out and then opt back in) Opting out at any time (day 1 or day 60) results in the same outcome: you are not eligible to be hired for any future employment with Capital One. Fast forward two months, if PIP isn’t successful, you are terminated, also not eligible for rehire. PIPs that are opted out or end unsuccessfully both have a small package paid out as severance, however you may not receive this if the PIP is accelerated to termination before the time expiration due to certain activities (abandonment, other conduct related activities).

Important to state that if you leave voluntarily, you will not be eligible for unemployment.

Again, sorry if the above is hard to absorb. I am trying to silence so much of the bad advice or guidance I see recommended on this site by so many people who are clearly not knowledgeable or informed as to what Capital One has in their playbook. Some of the “tactics” people recommend are simply stupid and will do nothing to help the situation and if anything increase the likelihood of an outcome the associate didn’t anticipate. For example (not that you said this, but in other subs I see this advice a lot) encouraging people to make claims of harassment, discrimination, etc., not sign your coaching plan, or to write in your performance review key phrases to somehow bypass performance related management. This is reckless advice and requires a significant burden of proof on the associate’s side to substantiate. Unless you have a law degree, don’t try to interpret performance conversions or coaching plan proceeding that way. I know you said you don’t feel comfortable going to HR - I hear you there as they often have a priority to protect the business first and foremost. I like to think of them as the school nurse, best equipped to handle minor scrapes and bruises. What I would recommend is a consult with AR - you can believe what you want about them but they truly are neutral and objective and in the corner of the associate from the onset of a case submitted. They will investigate any claim very thoroughly and independently, interview whoever they feel they need to, pull emails, review camera footage, etc completely free from any outside influence. This is one of the only groups that can do this in the company. Once AR issues findings however, there is no appeal process and there is no revisiting the same case-related complaint. You won’t be in any “trouble” if they don’t side in your favor which is good, however they will not entertain additional case requests for the same topic unless it’s deemed warranted (again needing a significant burden of proof). If they do find there was merit to the claims made, I’ve never once heard of them “throwing out” a performance management plan (CP or PIP) in process unless it was deemed falsely implemented. The more frequent scenario is they go after those deemed responsible for the policy violation if one is found to have taken place and take action against those responsible but often the violation remedy is independent of the existing performance management activities which still stand for the associate. Long story short, use AR if you genuinely feel you have a legitimate claim but don’t expect that action to stop or slow any in-flight performance plans. A claim made at the onset of a plan is a lot more believable and easier to investigate than one that is made closer to expiration in ARs eyes, but they will investigate all claims regardless. AR is very aware of the patterns and behaviors used regularly by underperforming associates and will quickly validate or dismiss claims made through their investigation.

Between HR, AR, OCI, etc, Capital One is VERY experienced in what actions and proceedings they can use to performance manage associates. What you see in place today has stood the test of time, refined over the years from legal cases, vetted and perfected by employment attorneys and perfected to ensure, for better or worse, that their actions and proceedings are “air tight” for them to use.

Opt out of the plan. Talk to your HRBP

I believe you can ask to opt out of a coaching plan and ask for a severance

Why not just wait for severance?