Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

I think the reality is that there is more going on than just cutting salaries. I think the management is very uncomfortable working with older and more knowledgeable developers. They want to work with newbies who know nothing and are unable to understand how clueless their manager actually is.

Younger people are also easier to manipulate. They haven't experienced being sabotaged yet, they don't think that happens, so easier to screw with them.

I like the idea from @Vv5FeCM-3dxy. That would have been useful for me. I would have been OK with that.

Also, could be across the board cuts in salaries, I know some companies have done that. Could move employees to 3/4 time or something like that. It's the loss of benefits that is the worst problem for me.

Oracle dev specializes in TaaS - Trauma As A Service

I don't think much can be done if you are laid off. But, I was harassed, lied about, etc, enough that I had to leave. I then looked into suing for harassment, but had very little evidence.

I was a very good developer. I think that the manager above me wanted me gone, and knew he couldn't do that with a layoff, because he could never make the case to the managers above him. I think his only play to make me leave was to harass the sh-- out of me.

I wish that I had had recordings, not sure of the legalities, but I wish I had done something earlier. I have retired, earlier than I wanted to, but still retired. It's a very sick world there. Don't think like I did, that because you are very good at your job, your manager wants you, before he wants to keep his yes-men and thugs. Yes-men and thugs are more important than people who do actual work.

It's a fake development organization. Fake marketing people who know absolutely nothing. They want demo-only software so they don't have to learn anything and don't have to have real conversations with their customers about anything. Clueless dev managers have no real technical understanding of anything and sit around all day in fake meetings where they agree with each other and accomplish absolutely nothing. Those same managers then freak out when they have to deal with a developer who knows what questions to ask and what to actually do. Can't have those developers taking their thug's bonuses. Thugs are absolutely needed to attack all the other managers and keep the apathetic developers in line.

Sick, sick, sick. If you are good at your job, you need to get out, you really, really, really need to get out.

I know this will be considered blasphemous by many but I'd be in favor of a declining salary once a certain age is met. Many employees would gladly make that tradeoff for the security of employment and benefits. In return, the company gets your knowledge and experience that can't easily be replaced by hiring 3 of your replacements in Romania. Professional athletes already follow this model on a compressed schedule but likely holds true for the rest of their post-athlete employment: their compensation hits the highest point in peak performance years (not implying that you can't hit peak in your 50's but it would be an outlier). Otherwise I agree that at least in the USA, if you are an older employee, you should just count on being pushed out the door legally and creatively by your overlords. My advice to younger workers reading this: SAVE like crazy and start to watch for the warning signs when you cross 40.

I have mixed feelings about devoting energy and note taking to prove age discrimination - it's a lot of work with a low probability of a desirable outcome. On the other hand, it's an issue of workplace equity, legality and economic justice. Propublica did research on IBM in this area, and had a good basis for legal action.

https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-american-workers/

The assertion of the prevailing US biz climate is that layoffs are a natural part of business, and it doesn't matter who gets laid off, and workers have no rights. Layoffs hurt older folks in measurable terms - loss of employment leads to Alzheimer's, depression and s---c-des. Corporations are a social construct that is in dire need of reform, just like the revolutions against medieval royalty and the wars against slavery and kicking the Brits out of the US were needful. Lawfare and voting are the current remedies against these parasitic non-human entities. If you have the energy to pursue Lawfare, more power to you!

It's an uphill battle to prove age discrimination in the USA, especially at Fortune 500 companies. My 60-year manager at a different employer won his case 20 years because the company got sloppy but nowadays they are way too savvy including Oracle. Remember that you can be a stellar employee with a five-star record of achievements and doing circles around that 23-year old new college graduate next to you and have awards plastered on your cubicle wall and STILL get laid off at will with no explanation needed. Oracle has outsourced HR advisors whose sole job is too make sure that they don't get sued for age discrimination. Sorry, not trying to paint a bleak picture but I'd advise putting your energy into sharpening your skills, maybe learning new ones too, and networking.

@Vv5FeCM-1pkn As proud as you are about your 15-16 hours a week, a lot of us don't get to do that. Some of us have people breathing down our necks all day.

It appears it depends upon the state:

In a majority of states, an employee can record a conversation in the workplace if that employee is taking part in the conversation. However, California does not follow the majority rule. In California and a handful of other states, an employee generally cannot record a conversation in the workplace unless everyone involved in that conversation consents or knows that the conversation will be recorded.

In any case, you don't have to share it with anyone. You might want it for your own purposes.

15-16 hours week ...drinking coffee and review layoff.com notes..even that's too much..

Effff you MH... dare you to let me go...hah..

In many state, like CA, it is illegal to record conversation without other parties's consent. So it would not be considered as evidence.

It would be considered evidence that you violated the law. So you got that going for you. Be sure to sue Oracle so you can lose what ever retirement you have set aside as well. Might as well destroy yourself in the process to hang on to that worthless job of yours.

I think you should just move on. Life is easier that way.

I just stopped doing anything other than showing I was "busy" went to movies during the day. I got certifications for AWS and other hot technologies. Played video games at home and graciously accepted the severance check.

Sad that you would have to do this, but probably not a bad idea given what’s going on with the layoffs

https://brobertsonlaw.com/recording-conversations-work-good-bad-idea/

Record it and then write your notes in a diary from the recording. This is not illegal.

It’s called note taking.

To use the recording as evidence it’s totally legal IF the call is between two people (Yourself and one other). Otherwise it’s all just note taking.

HR records everything anyway.

Illegal

Have you recorded anything that leads you to believe you're being discriminated against?

In many state, like CA, it is illegal to record conversation without other parties's consent. So it would not be considered as evidence.

You need a lawyer to get HR to listen to what you say. To get a lawyer, you need evidence. Collect information as you go, it is difficult to tell who is working with who, or who might be lying to you at any particular moment. Later on, when you find out you have been lied to, you have no evidence, unless you record everything.