Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

How Congress might crack down on H-1B abuse

Under his legislation, any company paying H-1B workers less than $100,000 would have to show they couldn't hire Americans for the same jobs.

Existing law has a similar requirement but sets the threshold at $60,000, a level established in 1998, and doesn't apply to foreign workers with master's degrees. Issa's bill would do away with that exemption.

The idea is to make it more expensive and complicated for companies to use H-1B visas, and to hurt companies that exploit the program.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/technology/h1b-reform-bill/

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| 4322 views | | 27 replies (last January 22, 2017) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+LfyoViC

27 replies (most recent on top)

Time will tell.

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Post ID: @ejzc+LfyoViC

Everyone I knew who got LR'd was regularly recognized for the hard work they did above & beyond their regular duties.

Go to a small systems house which works effectively on fixed priced contracts with major penalties for late delivery and you'll see a level of game far above what you'll see at Cisco even from the people with only 1-3 years experience.

I worked with many of the highly acclaimed on the engineering side of the house, and while they put in massive hours and were highly acclaimed they didn't have even the most basic skills. I'm talking elementary school skills like reading, writing and independent learning which is why everything was poorly shot from the hip, not just things you would get in a good undergraduate program like "what are requirements and design and how do they differ," functional decomposition and refactoring which few TLs and zero PEs I worked with there understood. Many once had the potential to be excellent engineers but like frogs slowly boiled in pots they weren't aware of what happened.

I can point to both hardware and software programs which shipped over three years late because they had to be redone repeatedly while the causes were easily preventable. Considering some on the software side were 1-3 month programs those are big misses not even counting the massive increase in body count after the programs were declared "complete" at that 1-3 month mark. The ADHD part comes from those years of post-completion tasking either being 23 hour often useless but measurable tasks between one hour daily meetings or 56 hour bug fixes, three of which can be disposed of in a 168 hour or seven day period (I've been there when directors threatened to fire people for saying "week" in meetings.)

Can anyone name another company where nightly builds are commonly broken for weeks to months at a time and branches sometimes abandoned because they are declared "unfixable?" This happens because the dashboards reward check in rate but don't track the corresponding build breakage so there is a strong disincentive to take the time to get it right in one shot. This cascades to the point where it's blindly accepted that this is how development is best done, which gives people the wrong perspective on what is actually effective.

On the hardware side a hypothetical 1THz processor with no cache and a narrow 1MHz memory bus for all instruction and data access isn't "fast" because of the 1THz processor - it will be stalled almost all the time. There are those rated as "best and brightest" at Cisco who don't get the fact that more than one component can limit the performance of a system and a number of designs ended up being redone over this. Likewise on the software side high schools in the 1970s taught people how to factor common code at the design phase to use GOSUB in BASIC but the amount of replication and 1,000+ line functions in the major code bases at Cisco is ludicrous. How many bugs do you have to fix when n bugs are replicated (by both independent development and cutting and pasting) across m dimensions (code in functions, functions in files, files in directories, directories in trees, and trees in branches?) This is how you end up measuring bug counts in blocks of 2.6 million.

Now that Cisco can't afford to waste money like this the fingers are being pointed at deadwood but they aren't responsible for any of these things. Who does that leave? Hint: it's not just "the other."

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Post ID: @btfo+LfyoViC

Why is that whenever I see a subject featuring "H1B", part of me just thinks - ah, ok, that's more racism in the US against Indians?

Where did I go wrong here?

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Post ID: @7zfq+LfyoViC

This implies "smart" and "hard working" are in some way equated to "effective." The people at Cisco look great on paper but in reality they're a bunch of ADHD cowboys shooting from the hip without drawing first. Every letter change after CSC is 2.6 million bug reports.

In my experience, the "smart" and "hard working" peopler were "effective". Just because you look great on paper doesn't make you either smart or hard working, and it certainly doesn't make you effective either.

There are a lot more mediocre & lazy people around than there were smart or hard working people. In my team, the smart and hard working ones were the ones LR'd due to being deemed too expensive while the mediocre or lazy folks were kept because they were only worth the cheaper salaries they made, assuming they were worth what they got paid. That's not to say that all the people remaining are mediocre or lazy. There's a bunch of good folks left, but I didn't know a single person who was lazy get LR'd. Everyone I knew who got LR'd was regularly recognized for the hard work they did above & beyond their regular duties.

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Post ID: @7jni+LfyoViC

I'd say the ratio of start[sic]-to-dumb Indians is about the same as the ratio of smart-to-dumb Americans. And I'd say the same applies to the ratio of hard working-to-lazy slackers.

This implies "smart" and "hard working" are in some way equated to "effective." The people at Cisco look great on paper but in reality they're a bunch of ADHD cowboys shooting from the hip without drawing first. Every letter change after CSC is 2.6 million bug reports.

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Post ID: @7uzg+LfyoViC

We are cheap labor and the companies will take us over local expensive development. That is way of capitalism so US companies know this. It better life for my family. That competition which America built on. Immagrat like me work harder and live cheaper than most local so we survive better. We are just as smart. In next generation my kid have to worry about same thing from other new immigrants labour. That's their problem. That what makes United States so great. It's always brutal competiion. You people are baby that complain about our doing more for less.

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Post ID: @4ojv+LfyoViC

There won't be any H1B crack down, nor any immigration reform. Trump will be impeached by end of year and Pence is much more dovish on immigration. In 2018 Republicans loose majorities in Congress. The time they have left, they will waste on fighting Obamacare (or rather replacing it with something essentially the same, but under a different name).

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Post ID: @3nir+LfyoViC

During the August 2016 visit to India, Michele Bond, the US Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs revealed that despite a hike in USCIS H-1B and L-1 visa fees on December 19, 2015, Indian nationals remain the highest beneficiary of these non-immigrant visa categories. According to Bond, India accounts for 70% of H-1B visas and 40% of L-1 visas issued worldwide by Washington4

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Post ID: @3kxb+LfyoViC

i guess too much focus is given to H1B's but lot of people in Cisco come through L1's so it wont really stop really immigration. lot of this IT companies can still use L1 route. its more easier for them because those employees cannot change jobs when on L1. if getting H1 is tough, outsourcing will increase. Outsourcing is irreversible phenomenon. Lot of this companies have their own Captive development centers in Bangalore.

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Post ID: @3bnb+LfyoViC

@2jxu

not true at all. we are smarter.

I don't agree with that statement. Certainly some of you are. Many are not. I'd say the ratio of start-to-dumb Indians is about the same as the ratio of smart-to-dumb Americans. And I'd say the same applies to the ratio of hard working-to-lazy slackers. Some teams have better ratios and others have worse.

I do have to say that having the ability to converse in English as a 2nd language makes some Indians more talented than I given that I never mastered a 2nd language. But I've noticed a direct correlation between the better an Indian's English skills, the more dedicated and harder they work.

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Post ID: @3omh+LfyoViC

Maybe not at Shell but for sure at 7-11 or Subway.

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Post ID: @3xvz+LfyoViC

@2xtk : the rancor is coming from your post and @2sbu's post- where they expect H!B to be in gas station after losing visa status.

If you claim to have "full knowledge" , then you should also know, that above statement of working in gas station after losing visa status, is impossible. Yet- this does not reflect rancor ?

You have got to be working in Cisco, since you reflect your insecurity and hatred, into others., while claiming to be "nobler than thou".

If you work on yourself and improving yourself, you would care about improving the society, not pulling down some hard working person.

Oh Yes ! I dont have H!B and no you are not paying me "slave" money. LOL

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Post ID: @3uwr+LfyoViC

@2bna, not true at all. we are smarter.

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Post ID: @2jxu+LfyoViC

You're in demand because we can pay you slave money.

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Post ID: @2bna+LfyoViC

2vbp: I won't address your points specifically, because I don't want to help perpetuate the type of rancor your post highlights, but I will say you are 100% incorrect about the reasons so many Americans are against the current H1B system. Until you take the time to understand all aspects of the issue, you should refrain from commenting. I have great respect for most of my Indian and Chinese colleagues, but there is absolutely no truth to anything you wrote.

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Post ID: @2xtk+LfyoViC

@2sbu: please dont waste time explaining the rues. This only shows the hatred people have for Indians/chinese. I am a citizen, so I am not saying this because * the truth hurts* - as @ 2ily thinks.

You have to understand that this hatred is coming from their own insecurity and inability to compete in a job environment. Let us forgive this @2ily person. The fact remains that we are in demand and they cant get a job, even if we are out of the equation.

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Post ID: @2vbp+LfyoViC

All the Dumb people, if H1B person loses the job and dont find a sponsor within certain timeframe like one month, they have to leave the country. so they are not going to work in gas stations, departmental stores.

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Post ID: @2sbu+LfyoViC

@1mcg truth hurts

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Post ID: @2ily+LfyoViC

@Axk: yup thats how it works. If the tech company refuses to sponsor H!B, then all those guys can work at gas stations and malls.. BTW are you still with cisco, or did you get LR'd. With your knowledge, you will not even get a job at the gas station.

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Post ID: @1mcg+LfyoViC

I'm H1B and proud. Nothing will change. We do a better job at a good price.

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Post ID: @1utq+LfyoViC

The H!B end signs are happening. People told we cannot sponsor you anymore and you see them working at car washes, malls, and other jobs other than tech. Welcome to the new type of immigrant H1Bs who were left out to dry and now can't legally work in the US.

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Post ID: @axk+LfyoViC

One way to stop abuse is by banning/ controlling outsourcing companies like infosys, wipro, TCS, HCL grabbing majority of the H1-B visas. They flood the H1-b application system with multiple applications for single opening.

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Post ID: @wje+LfyoViC

The gravy train is running out of steam.

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Post ID: @gqv+LfyoViC

A perhaps simpler thing might be to require the H1-B worker must be a direct employee of the end company - as in , IBM, Cisco, DIsney, etc. No contractors working for Infosys and hired to an end company. If the H!-B employers have to treat them as regular employees, we might see fewer hired, since they would be hared to get rid of

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Post ID: @iqp+LfyoViC

The era of the H1B is coming to an end.

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Post ID: @oyp+LfyoViC

Completely agree. Exactly my thoughts. It should be 120k min in CA atleast.

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Post ID: @wgm+LfyoViC

unless its 120000 it wont make much difference

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Post ID: @dof+LfyoViC

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