Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

Some observations from a long time employee

After 18 years with Cisco I got the axe last week along with a quite a few members of my team and my boss. Even today I still have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I'm relieved. Relieved to not be dealing with the politics, the lack of a strategy, rewarding incompetence, and leaders without a backbone. On the other hand I made the mistake of getting comfortable in my job. Intellectually I know that I should have moved out of the company years ago, but when the money is good and you like the people you work with and who work for you it's hard to work up the motivation to do so.

Anyway for my observations:

  • There is no long term strategy. Sometimes there is some vague long-term vision. e.g., we're going to be a SW company. But changing that to a strategy is anathema.

  • Leaders are afraid to lead. Even most first line managers are afraid to make a decision. Those that do are regarded as "rebels", or "pains in the a--" by their management teams because they "didn't consider the political ramifications of making a decision".

  • There is no accountability. Deadlines get missed, features get pulled and nobody says or does anything.

  • Managers don't manage. Probably my biggest pet peeve. A good manager manages his/her team. I used to laugh every time I saw a new initiative that said things like "meet with your team at least every quarter individually." Every ****ing quarter? There are people on my team that I would meet with individually 3 - 4 times a week when the situation called for it.

  • They don't teach new managers how to be managers. They get promoted, but they never get the fundamentals taught to them.

  • The reward managers as ICs not as Managers. Awesome you wrote that great white paper and presented to this customer, but you have a 40% turn over, your employees hate their jobs and not one of them can tell you why their work is relevant.

  • They are still stuck in the 1990s regarding compensation. If you have a strong performing team sure there should be some variation on rewards, but saying that some people need to have a 2.0 IPF and others below 1? Bull****. If you have that large of a discrepancy in performance, then you should have fired someone a long time ago.

  • Well I guess you should have fired someone a long time ago, if the stupid policies allowed it. I've had bad employees, that I inherited (not ones I interviewed and selected), that could not be trusted to tie their own shoes. It took me 9 months to get rid of them. I had to create work that they would fail at so that i didn't give them things I actually needed for them to screw up enough to justify a PIP.

  • They give no meaningful training in how to interview people. In my former company I went through an intensive 1 week course where we did dozens of practice interviews that were recorded and critiqued by the instructors and class, to learn how to interview people. I still use those techniques today.

  • The basics of resource allocation are lost on the entire leadership chain. Concepts that are basic to even personal finance, are met with blank stares, "How much do you want to allocate to low risk, high success but low reward activities i.e. your cash cows" vs "How much do you want to invest in high risk low success but high reward"? is often met with idiotic statements like "we only want to invest in low risk, high success and high reward". ***tard, it doesn't work that way.

  • While they "encourage" people to take risks any time a risk doesn't pay off it's punished, with a low IPF, or loss of a job.

  • The concept that when your revenues are very low high growth rates are easy is lost on people. If you sold $1M of something last year, and you sold $1.5M of it this year, that's a great growth rate. But is that really better than going from $1B of something to $1.1B with the same resource investment? let's see for the same investment I could get $500K or I could get $100M hmmmm... Let me think about that. What do you mean that you can't assume linear or exponential growth rates long term? Why not? Idiots.

Cisco has stayed alive for this long based off of feeding off of the dying corpse of the routing and switching business. From what I've hard at least 2 Cisco Fellows were hit in this round. If that's true then they've just put the entire R&S portfolio into maintenance mode and they don't have a damn thing to make up that revenue.

Oh well enough ranting. Off to find a new job and to see what I opportunities I can find for my former team. I expect to find one long before my severance is used up.

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| 6301 views | | 30 replies (last August 25, 2016) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+J0vDs8M

30 replies (most recent on top)

Good thread

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Post ID: @3fli+J0vDs8M

"one saving grace of millennials and indians is that they've reduced the flow of real work so much that even an old guy like me looks like a speeding rabbit among turtles." - anon

Perfect.

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Post ID: @2bcp+J0vDs8M

I had 14 years. I was used to the money and stress. Being cut loose hurt, but now I am fine. It must be what a long time mistress feels like when her married benefactor cuts her loose because he found someone new. She's left with the house, the car, the memories, and the realization that, yes, this was all going to be temporary. I still find the drama intriguing, though, through reading these posts.

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Post ID: @2ppj+J0vDs8M

Sure sounds like Intel and Cisco used the same advisors... I was hit after 16 years of being a top rated performer at Intel (recruited to a new job role at just the wrong time) and this post and follow on comments are hitting close to home. While I'm somewhat glad to have been pushed from the nest and the mess that I left behind (severance and finding a new job within days of being let go are definitely softening the blow), I'm finding it difficult to get over knowing who survived the cuts. thanks to all for sharing --- and best of luck moving forward!

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Post ID: @1wcd+J0vDs8M

I have spent 15 years at cisco India in engineering right out of college.

I am not sure if I have to quit. The product road map for our BU looks shaky.

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Post ID: @1gax+J0vDs8M

Seems to me our leadership interested in cloud sw (analytics etc) and not at all in cloud networking. Without networking in play to use our history and knowledge base, how different are we from 100s of other cos trying to do cloud sw. We are just one of herd.

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Post ID: @1jsw+J0vDs8M

I agree with the mixed feelings: on the one hand, I've been miserable at Cisco for years. Trying to exert influence on the management team as an IC in that company is like boxing a fog-bank and a glacier at the same time. And, yet, with nearly as many years in the enterprise as this contributor, I feel in some way 'dumped' or rejected -- something like, "I can't believe I was ejected when X is still drawing a paycheck!!!" It's not the healthiest mindset, and I'm working to move beyond it. I expect I'm going to be a lot happier for having be 'dumped' than I would be had I survived this round of layoffs.

Having been at Lucent while it spiraled around the bowl before rushing unceremoniously into the sewer, what's going on at Cisco is familiar. Cisco has missed the turn to consumption-based and transactional modes of business (e.g. selling 'networking' as opposed to network equipment or other things with a serial number stamped on it). Cisco has failed absolutely to assert a meaningful presence as a cloud provider (forget leadership, just existing in the space in some notable way at all). Cisco shows no particular aptitude for quality software delivery (being "Agile according annualized deliverables with expected ROI by budget at completion" is the kind of self-defeating 'strategy' that the management team will adhere to even while the water rushes over the decks). It seems as though the challenges before Cisco's management team exceed the track record of capabilities demonstrated by the Cisco management team.

Despite self-promoted delusions of being a family, Cisco is any other corporation of its size: all workers are contingent workers, and no amount of work travel at holidays, weekends and nights spend resolving issues, or other personal sacrifices will make a different when the cycle of layoffs hit every four or five years. For those remaining, the message may be best summed up as "get while the getting is good."

The joke, of course, is that they are laying off the older workers with prejudice, when it's the older workers who still have a sense of 'belonging' to the company they work for. The new hires have seen there parents laid off once or twice already; when the arrive in the workforce, they're already looking to get out. Hence the 50% voluntary attrition of new hires within 2 years of their hire dates in some areas of the enterprise.

I wish I were a younger worker with that temporary attitude. I wouldn't feel so down about having been dumped.

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Post ID: @1aid+J0vDs8M

I am an over 20 year veteran and I was just laid off along with almost all of the people in any part of the Service Provider sales team in an overlay role. It is not so much locations as lines of business that used the "older employee" layoff to get rid of people from previous regimes. Chuck has never supported SP, and the CTO group hates SP's and see's them as the cause of our decline in Data Center business.....(instead of really poor development leadership decisions from Biri)

So the new Cisco is going to be less of a strategic partner with the companies who invest in our technology...we are quietly moving away from serious cloud and now just "cloudwash" enterprise datacenter stuff instead.

If we let a few DE's go then they must have been the kind of "mavericks" who have the temerity to point out when we are abandoning core value propositions or technical advantages because executives are too busy to really understand an issue before they make grand decisions.

I am so happy to be getting laid off.

And.... Ba-bye!

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Post ID: @1coo+J0vDs8M

Amex to all your points. Esp the strategy thing. Kelly A, who was always talking about 'execution of the strategy' - and as if it was like watering a plant in the corner of the room. I used to scream at the Cisco TV "What IS the strategy? 30 seconds man - give it to us in 4 bullets - GO!".

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Post ID: @1xxg+J0vDs8M

They have a really hard time adapting to new ideas, new procedures and a much faster pace of work

one saving grace of millennials and indians is that they've reduced the flow of real work so much that even an old guy like me looks like a speeding rabbit among turtles.

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Post ID: @1ofp+J0vDs8M

I worked as a contractor twice at Cisco. They pay was good and the work was ok. I got laid off both times. The first time, the product I worked on (Cisco Security Manager) went to India. They second time, I worked for the Flip Video division which was closed down. Both times, I got 3 days notice that my job was ending. The full time people got 6 months of severance. I'm not complaining... that's life in Silicon Valley. Luckily I was able to quickly find a job both times.

Eighteen years at Cisco is a long, long time. Kudos to you for sticking it out. However, as you said it would have been good to leave there years ago. Unfortunately, most of the smaller companies would not hire you. We're interviewed people who had long stays at big companies in Silicon Valley (lately several Yahoo people). They have a really hard time adapting to new ideas, new procedures and a much faster pace of work. That said, something will turn up.

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Post ID: @vvl+J0vDs8M

This post is breaking all records - I guess we have many people who feel this way

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Post ID: @dty+J0vDs8M

Hi all,

Sorry to hear about this latest round. I was affected in '14, along with the rest of my team.

Does anyone know how but Boxborough was affected this time around?

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Post ID: @xbn+J0vDs8M

Great observation based on 18 years of experience. For documentation purposes, it'd be awesome if you can do a post on how Cisco changed over last 18 years - what trends have you noticed, what key decision changed things, etc.

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Post ID: @dkq+J0vDs8M

"Some observations from a long time Cisco employee" is a #GOLD post

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Post ID: @vrq+J0vDs8M

Each of the bullets should be a thread for itself

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Post ID: @med+J0vDs8M

Kudos - awesome and accurate post

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Post ID: @zmk+J0vDs8M

Great post but you just described the vast majority of the legacy tech companies. This could easily be Dell, IBM, HP, EMC, NetApp, ...

The "old guard" of the tech world follow Einstein's definition of insanity - doing the same things over and over and expecting different results. As a long time "tech person" it's sad to see but these companies are going down the same road as SCO, Borland, and Novell - they're dead but just don't know it yet.

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Post ID: @uoi+J0vDs8M

Most people stay because of the money. I wasted the last 2-3 years. I didn't really doing anything that will enhance my career, but i stayed because of the RSU, Bonus and nice paycheck... Now that I'm gone. I have no RSU, no Bonus, had to take paycut and no PTO accrue as I'm getting unlimited PTO "perk"... but I'm learning a lot of new things I never did at cisco...

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Post ID: @vnz+J0vDs8M

Cisco is unpredictable no doubt but why people still want to work there. I got hit in 2014 and i learned nothing, saw people who can just talk for hours and are unable to do anything. I was not talkative and thus i was not able to defend myself. Especially, if you are an outsider and doesnot belong to the country of origin then you can never survive.

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Post ID: @byu+J0vDs8M

I've been at Cisco less than a year, but the comments in this thread confirm that my read on the company is dead on. Though I was not resourced, I plan to make my stay a short one. Best of luck to all.

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Post ID: @kvr+J0vDs8M

Well put, you nailed it. I got LR'd in 2015 and it's the best thing that ever happened to me. This was an onshore-offshore political vendetta involving people in Norway, interestingly enough. Cisco has a lot of money offshore they don't want to bring over and pay taxes on.

I got another job 1 1/2 months later, but due to some miscommunication, it was a contact job that paid quite a bit less. But even that was good, as I found out that this wasn't a place I wanted to be long-term anyway, and it kept me busy and occupied while I was interviewing elsewhere. Having a job and looking is better than not having a job and looking. I penciled it out and I came out about two months' ahead, so it was better to wait for the LR.

I've been working in the valley since the 1990s, and I've seen them come and we've seen them go. My first company (ROLM) is now a parking lot for Levi Stadium - not one building is standing.

Cisco is now one of those companies on the downward trajectory. I feel more sorry for the people I know that are still there. In one year, you'll find that it's the best thing that ever happened to you. Good luck to all of us, it's not easy for anybody.

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Post ID: @oxz+J0vDs8M

Spot on! Especially the last point. You can't grow at x percent per year. It's just not possible.

Working there felt like living in Atlas Shrugged on a daily basis. Management doesn't understand the business. If you attempt to get any detailed answer out of anyone in management they either spout some canned answer or look at you like a deer in headlights. Their entire job is politicking, and eventually everyone politics to someone who falls out of favor.

The worst thing is that people who are capable of very good work just stop bothering. What's the point? You will either get laid off for doing more than everyone else (hence making them look bad) or get laid off for doing less than everyone. It's soul destroying to not be able to accomplish anything year after year.

However, recruiters like people who have worked at Cisco, and finding a new job shouldn't be too hard. People who've worked at Cisco can 1) work with no management 2) deal with a toxic culture.

Enjoy your severance package and your celebrate your release for time served!

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Post ID: @xvq+J0vDs8M

Great post. Most accurate articulation of the issues.

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Post ID: @rfn+J0vDs8M

I know one Cisco fellow in Boxborough got hit! Been with the company for 20 years! Surprised was an understatement.

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Post ID: @knm+J0vDs8M

One of the most accurate and honest picture of Cisco nowadays ... kudos

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Post ID: @kez+J0vDs8M

Do you mind sharing how many times you got promoted and how many times you have got a pay rise? 18 years in a company like Cisco is awesome

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Post ID: @xnq+J0vDs8M

excellent post....and exactly why I resigned :)

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Post ID: @dvh+J0vDs8M
  • standing ovation * NAILED IT.
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Post ID: @icx+J0vDs8M

+1

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Post ID: @ttp+J0vDs8M

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