Let's think about it, with all these swirling rumors about as soon as today (which now is unlikely) and this weekend..After MONTHS of negotiating, you're telling me VZ and the Union within 3 days of mediation are going to strike a deal? VZ is not caving. If the Union caved or somehow they did miraculously meet in the middle ground and strike a deal, the Union leaders would get killed by their members for then not agreeing to mediation back in April if it was so successful. I say middle of June agreement made.
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Holy crap there are actually intelligent people with knowledge of the business commenting in this thread! How did that happen on this site? Seriously, good comments here.
Sounds like a plan!
"Damn, we're in agreement! How the hell did that happen on this board?"
There's no shortage of brain power on either side of the picket line. Those of us who choose to walk through life without blinders have always known that.
There are people who enjoy their work and take pride in it. Carrying a union card is neither a requirement nor a detriment when it comes to being one of them.
We've behaved like proper adults for several posts in a row, now it's time to go back to calling each other names, cursing and spewing nonsense.
Damn, we're in agreement! How the hell did that happen on this board?
"Verizon would still be selling the bandwidth to the local company. So we could still get some of the profits while only maintaining the larger, optical circuits."
Indeed.
"Really, this would just be going back to what things were but under different company names. One company to maintain the national and international backbone and other, local companies to maintain the circuits running to homes and smaller businesses."
Two different lines of business under two different owners and with two different set of goals. You have the logistics part 10001% correct.
"Sounds like a win, win for both sides. Since the union workers would be a larger percentage of the workforce they would also have more control over their contracts."
Amen.
McAdam's version of VZ doesn't want us, that much is obvious. Kindly sell us to an entity that could both utilize and respect our collective knowledge and experience. Make everyone's life easier for once.
Verizon would still be selling the bandwidth to the local company. So we could still get some of the profits while only maintaining the larger, optical circuits. Currently we sell large amounts of bandwidth this way to Google, Netflix and other large companies. Really, this would just be going back to what things were but under different company names. One company to maintain the national and international backbone and other, local companies to maintain the circuits running to homes and smaller businesses. Sounds like a win, win for both sides. Since the union workers would be a larger percentage of the workforce they would also have more control over their contracts.
"Just hand off GigE or larger to Frontier, or whoever, and let them worry about keeping that older stuff in repair. Hell, if that is all they are doing a smaller company could make a good profit on it."
Nothing would make me happier at this point than the news of us actually being sold to Frontier would. Seriously. Frontier still maintains a lot of the Bell System approaches which are the only way to keep the customers happy in the long run. McAdam's version of Verizon has absolutely zero interest in any long-term game, which is both sad and despicable at the same time.
That makes some sense of why Verizon wants to get rid of that stuff and let a local company handle it. Just hand off GigE or larger to Frontier, or whoever, and let them worry about keeping that older stuff in repair. Hell, if that is all they are doing a smaller company could make a good profit on it. We were selling T1s for about $1,500/month when I started. At that point the profit margin was so high there was a large NOC of people that handled troubles on them. The same person would take the call, check the circuit, call out to COs and test with them. We even handled router troubleshooting on both ends. Now there is just not enough profit in those circuits to give them the same attention. Hell, I don't think GigE circuits are given the same attention as they T1s got back then. The market has changed quite a bit.
"What I don't understand about that last comment is "who is still using T1's these days?" Really, there are still people buying data 1.5M at at time?"
You'd be surprised and amazed at all the stuff that is still in use, especially in larger cities with huge government presence and many hospitals. Any of these phone rooms would blow your mind, I can guarantee that.
As for T-1s, I remember when we used to charge $2.5K/months for these and another $2K for install, and that was in this millennium. Nowadays, you can get one with a contract from a CLEC for $250/month and shoot 24 dialtones over it, far cheaper than any other option for a business user, and you get that lovely 4-hour SLA that a regulated circuit brings...
Did I mention that 99% of the bank ATMs sit on T-1s as well? Your local grocery store may decide to go wireless and save money, but JP Morgan Chase and its TBTF friends won't...
And if you think that T-1s are ancient - which they are - take a walk on the wild side with troubleshooting radio lines, ringdowns and low-level analog data circuits, which are dime-a-dozen in any metropolis on the East Coast...still active and working, and requiring a DO within 4 hours of the trouble reported...
What I don't understand about that last comment is "who is still using T1's these days?" Really, there are still people buying data 1.5M at at time? This is not a smart-asscomment. I'm on the old UUNet side and we're selling links in the 10G range. I remember supporting t1s and then DS1s when I started but not for years.
"They've already hired over 5000 workers to replace union workers, and word on the street is that one really hard replacement worker equals 2.5 union employees production-wise"
So they get 10 completes in I&M world during an 8-hour period? 15 in a 12-hour day? I'd have to be on some really vicious drug in order to believe that line of nonsense.
" because the union workers purposely work slow to keep expectations low, not to mention they don't work a minute over 8 hours and take 2 breaks during the day."
That might have been the case in the mid-to-late 90s, but let me bring you up to date...
Most of the area affected by strike has seen forced overtime through the nose over the past couple of years, which was one of the reasons for the strike to be called in the first place.
While the official expectation in the I&M copper world is 4 completes per day, people were suspended for attempting to return "extra" work (as in jobs # 4-7) at the end of the day although they had said "no" to OT in the morning and were not notified that they were being forced by their supervisor in the time frame that is contractually required. So a proper 8-hour day was pretty much a memory from the days gone by for most of us.
As for the breaks, we're only allowed an unpaid lunch break in the middle of our tour.
So in the supposedly dying wireline world, there was plenty of work for 30K people to the point of them being forced 10-15 hours every week, month after month...and now we're going to address all of that with 1/3 of the manpower?
Time for a reality check...
The reality is that productivity has gone down the toilet, and that many replacement workers will be QAR'd starting possibly as early as next week. That people are being given 12EG tickets in the morning and are dumping back anywhere from 6-9 at the end of their 12-hour shift. That it's impossible to find a tester who knows how to test a special circuit that is not a T-1. And the list goes on and on, all of the info in this last paragraph courtesy of one of my former managers...
VZ isn't going to cave. They've already hired over 5000 workers to replace union workers, and word on the street is that one really hard replacement worker equals 2.5 union employees production-wise because the union workers purposely work slow to keep expectations low, not to mention they don't work a minute over 8 hours and take 2 breaks during the day.
Verizon is finding that fresh new workers would allow them to use half to 3/4 the number of employees that they require from the union.
VZ will not cave. You are done.
EWA workers are now being replaced with contractors. Already one in my apartment back. Those contractors are the new workforce, not EWA. The EWA workers are going to return to their jobs to get non Union jobs back to normal. That will keep the company afloat until you sign or are replaced with the contracts. Slow and tedious, yet effective.
Jay Beasley and Eric Sheehan like QAR
"Vz is not caving. Way too much invested now. The work going on to replace this many people is like nothing I've ever seen in 25 years at this place."
They'll cave - at some level - eventually. The replacement workers are not cutting the mustard, the productivity is down - QARs starting next week as per a management source of mine - and the customers complaints which are never in short supply are through the roof. Having said that, it won't happen tomorrow, or next week, likely not even next month.
"I will be surprised if any deal is reached in these meetings. "
It's a dog and pony show. No more, no less.
"This strike was a colossal mistake in judgment."
Not really, since all the other options - as presented in the so-called LBFO - were actually far worse.
What VZ top brass has failed to realize was that most of the unionized workforce was preparing for this strike for quite a while. Painful lessons were learned in 2011/12, and people went out knowing that they're fighting for their very survival within this company.
@pgq
I think you're right, what was I thinking.
Vz is not caving. Way too much invested now. The work going on to replace this many people is like nothing I've ever seen in 25 years at this place. I will be surprised if any deal is reached in these meetings. This strike was a colossal mistake in judgment. Sleeping bear is awake.
"I just can't believe the secretary of labor will not pressure an agreement. His time will be wasted if nothing gets done soon."
Welcome to the world of politics where people get paid to accomplish absolutely nothing...
I just can't believe the secretary of labor will not pressure an agreement. His time will be wasted if nothing gets done soon.
"Christie will absolutely veto the nj unemployment bill. So no unemployment in NJ."
And the veto - if imposed - will be over-ridden. NJ is still a very blue state. They were the only ones who actually paid out unemployment benefits during the short strike of 2011 from what I recall.
I no nothing and I can prove it
Sept 5
Christie will absolutely veto the nj unemployment bill. So no unemployment in NJ.
My prediction is a return to work of June 1. Company will not want to pay health care administrators for any of Mays premiums. I could see an announcement coming Memorial Day weekend. This is of course if an agreement can even be reached.
Hurricane season about to begin as well.
" I say middle of June agreement made."
Make that middle of August, or even September. With rain season knocking on the door.
On June 2nd, the unemployment benefits in NY - which is home to more than 1/3 of the striking workforce - kick in. At that point union will have to come back with a decent contract in order for it to be ratified. Anything remotely resembling VZ's so-called LBFO will not cut the mustard.
Folks in RI are already collecting unemployment, and I believe that NJ is just around the corner as well. MA should not be far behind.
In the states where workers are ineligible for unemployment, they'll rely on strike fund and side jobs. The good news is that the cost of living in these states is lower than it is in NY/NJ.
If CWA wants to shove something down our throats their time is running out. In fact, it may have had run out already.