I figured I’d get ahead of the rumors and told my boss I’d volunteer to be considered for the next round of layoffs if they happened. Made some jokes about severance and finally getting some time off. A few months later, I got slapped with a PIP for "showing a lack of commitment." Turns out they’d rather keep me miserable than let me walk away clean. Now I’m stuck bending over backwards just to keep the job I didn’t even want anymore.
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Would love a severance package 1 week for every year.
Ex HW Manager myself. By mid year we told how many needed to be in the outer L, select the employees, and write mid year reviews aligned accordingly.
HR would review the mid years and make sure they are worded like an outer L review.
(There was a template for each block.)
Then at the end of the year we were told how many needed to be in the outer L again.
I could not put someone in the outer L unless they had a bad prior mid year review because HR feared legal issues in not having documentation of a previous warning prior to the pip being issued.
Again HR audited all the reviews against templates for each block.
These reviews were written in Q3 and then rewritten as the outer L quota changed. In short, I had 2-3 employees where I wrote a block 5 review as well as an outer L review. Both approved by HR, and the one given determined by our director's final decision.
"ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you"
See, I am always careful what I tell my manager. I tell him how hard I want to kick his ar-e and stick my foot where the sun doesn't shine. And those are the pleasantries.
Hate to probe this further, but you told your manager to fire you? why would you even give them that info?
As a former HW Mgr, the 'elbow quota' is for certain a real expectation, even if it can't be found anywhere written. Maybe their group was protected by a courageous higher up who didn't flow that down, but that person didn't last too long.
@cr is either not telling the truth (if he is a manager/director/VP) or doesn't know what he is talking about (doesn't do performance reviews). There is ABSOLUTELY a requirement that x% of the department ends up in the elbow. This is clearly communicated to the first line managers during the MRR phase (precursor) to the midyear review and is finalized during the year end review. The specific names of the individuals are mentioned as to who is in the outer elbow (blocks 3, 6,7,8,9). At least 5% of the department is getting a PIP in March when the reviews are delivered. Doesn't matter if you are hourly or salary employee, you could get surprised. The only ones that don't get in the outer elbow is the managers and leadership. As a director said in our MRR meeting, "there are no managers in the elbow because we don't tolerate poor performers". This was a veiled message to abide by the 5% quota or the manager is out next review.
@cr you are another HR troll and this fact hit a little to close to home. Your jig is up and the company has been outed. Good Day Sir/Mam!
Not sure if all the effort for PIP is worthwhile. Know someone who got PIPed, the document is full of BS, e.g., manager say the person did not do X, but there is email of reporting and showing it has been done and reported. Unless it is something serious that you have evidence such as discrimination, seems it is just a format to let ppl go with minimal severance and no legal obligation. HR is definitely with your manager. Probably just use the time to refresh your resume and move on.
@ba you forgot a few steps
- . Read up on depression and then get a diagnosis , if you happen to be a veteran or first responder in past go for ptsd instead
- . Work with a therapist to create a list of reasonable accommodations, make sure it is something your mgr can’t do. Document informing Honeywell of this request
- . Get a labor lawyer
- hand lawyer documentation of honeywells refusal to accommodate your disability
@cr I am a revenue generating machine. Thats what I get paid for. No pass me some stock options
@br the ‘all managers are required to have a percentage of their direct reports in the elbow’ is absolute BS - I have been a people leader for many years with a large team, and I have never had to put someone in the elbow. Some people are just not meeting expectations. It is a company not a charity. People need to work - that’s what they are getting paid for.
"Showing lack of commitment" is vague at best without specific's defining your behavior and what knowing what exactly constitutes "having commitment" per your manager. Document as previously advised but do know this about PIP's, managers are mandated to have 15% to 20% of their direct reports in the "elbow". This is a well known Honeywell fact that has been documented. Regarding HR they will say that they are a neutral party and their to help you, I informed the HR person that told me that should keep that quiet or they would beat me out the door, unfortunately they didn't appreciate my insight or humor. I was laid off before I received a PIP because I had documented too much of management's baloney without documentation and asked directly about the "elbow", you should have seen the look on their faces. There is a better life after Honeywell as I and others have found work that we enjoy, our gifts and talents are appreciated. Finally Honeywell's reputation is a joke on the street's, the mere mention of them will garner the response "oh we have heard of them". They are dropped from the conversation after that because what Honeywell says and stands for is a joke!
Well... I am a veteran and can't be PiPd either
I am nonexempt and can't get PiP'd. Union baby!
Totally agree, our boss is epitome of the Peter principle and a complete fraud. We learnt the hard way that the fake friendliness was just a ruse to extract information from you. He has consistently committed the most evil and callous actions against his 'subordinates'. Even has the audacity to call himself a religious man, he certainly ain't going to heaven!
Yeh, be very careful what you say Honeywell is now rife with snaky industry failures and dropouts who are as a desperate as can be.
Tips on how to navigate this:
- Document Everything Meticulously
From now on, record the dates and times of all conversations, meetings, and communications related to your PIP. You can't over-document. Categorize and file this information immediately to save yourself significant time and stress later.
- Obtain Your PIP and Clarify Expectations
Request a copy of your PIP in both hard copy and electronic formats. If it's not provided to you immediately, document the date and time of your request and the lack of response.
Next, schedule a meeting to clarify every single point on the PIP. Ask highly specific questions about:
What success looks like for each goal.
How progress will be measured and evaluated.
What resources and support will be provided to help you achieve these goals.
Take comprehensive notes during this meeting, including the date, time, and all attendees.
- Proactively Document Your Achievements and Feedback
Maintain a thorough record of all your work, projects, and achievements, especially those directly tied to your PIP goals. Save all instances of positive feedback, whether it's from your manager, colleagues, or clients. You can also proactively solicit this positive feedback. This documentation will be crucial evidence demonstrating that you met the terms of your PIP or that the expectations were unreasonable.
- Propose Solutions and Show Initiative
When receiving feedback, don't just passively accept it. Propose concrete solutions you can implement to address identified gaps. Document these proposed solutions and the subsequent conversations. This demonstrates your commitment to improvement and proactive engagement.
- Understand HR's Role and Seek Neutral Support
Remember, HR is primarily there to protect the company's interests, not yours. Avoid confiding in them about personal concerns or your strategy for addressing the PIP. I would recommend avoiding them at all costs and utilize Access Integrity.
For all meetings with your manager regarding the PIP, request a neutral third party to be present. This should be someone independent, not an HR representative.
- Report Retaliation and Know Your Rights
If you experience any retaliation or harassment, report it immediately to your company's designated integrity or ethics channel (Access Integrity). When reporting, specifically request that your department VP NOT be the HR representative tasked with investigating your complaint.
Research your employee rights related to performance plans and termination in your jurisdiction. Ensure your employer understands that you are aware of these rights. Throughout this process, maintain a professional attitude and do not disparage anyone.
By meticulously following these steps, you will build a strong case to protect yourself against wrongful termination and potentially encourage your employer to pursue an amicable separation, such as a layoff, rather than a performance-based firing. Many online resources can provide further assistance and guidance during this time. Good luck.