Why is hiring still happening amid mass layoffs? How can those in power justify cutting hundreds or maybe even thousands of people while at the same time advertising for jobs, sometimes in those same groups??? Am I crazy or is there something fundamentally wrong with this?
22 replies (most recent on top)
The H1B hiring practice is definitely a problem, but I don’t blame the H1Bs
Exactly, I can't fault people for doing what is best for them, they are just playing by the rules. It is the system and the process that needs to be overhauled, it is horribly skewed against US Citizens and green card holders. That needs to be leveled and rebuilt from the ground up
Someone is always waiting to take their jobs. The cycle repeats. Karma calls!
I been told by new generation in India that that these VPs in US from Indian decency from grand pa generation are for shock treatment as they do not have anything in common and in fact offended to treated as cheap menial resource.
In my team most of the senior architects in the recent past were transferred from IDC to redwood shores. They let go all the US based architects over time and are not interested in competing in the local market to replace them. Now we have an org of VPs who can hardly articulate any strategy and able to keep their jobs based on ethnicity. The next move is to have HQ to Bangalore.
US citizens get laid off while H1Bs keep their jobs; deport them all and citizens employment will flourish: this is corruption in the entire industry, not just Oracle; lobbyists have paid politicians thru Wall Street investors to approve this laws: America is not a democracy anymore.
Donot blame H1b. They are not underpaid. They are paid at least at the minimum of the pay range as required by law to get their application certified. It is actually the US citizens who choose to work way below the pay range as O has no requirement as per law to pay them in their pay range and are drag on wages. To be fair to O this is a tech industry practice.
The H1B hiring practice is definitely a problem, but I don’t blame the H1Bs themselves but the US companies like Oracle that push aside US-based employees and bring in the H1Bs. It’s a disgraceful practice especially since we all know that the it is putting many US citizens out of well paying jobs in IT.
Frustration should be expected when we see so many IT companies like Oracle laying off US citizens by the truckload, yet few H1Bs get RIFd. It’s a practice that does not happen to this degree in other countries. I have friends in the UK, Germany, and Australia who have said that it’s much harder for foreigners to land jobs there versus the US.
Post from TheLayoff.com
This applies to the entire industry in America, not just Oracle
What a shame how companies like Oracle keep bringing in H1Bs at the same pay and yet US citizens are losing their jobs. I was on one team in sales consulting a few years back where the manager, of Indian decent but a US citizen, brought in two H1Bs from India for lucrative SA positions, and trust me that there were lots of far more qualified US-based employees for these slots who were also US citizens.
And that's the elephant in the room that no one at Oracle speaks about, namely that we get people often of of Indian decent getting promoted to manager or director positions, and then they in turn bring in and even promote others on their teams of Indian decent. And those I've known who got promoted by Indian-decent managers more often than not were less deserving than others who were not of the same decent. DISCRIMINATION AT ITS WORST.
But... the source of this problem lies exclusively with Oracle itself since it's the company itself that is allowing this to happen. But this problem is not going to change anytime in the future at Oracle.
Wonderful. So the vast number of H1Bs make the same as US citizens, yet I have seen MANY more US citizens RIFd at Oracle while the H1Bs were largely kept. Why is this?
And now it appears that most H1Bs are also getting the benefit of degrees from US universities.
There is no doubt that H1Bs have taken many jobs from US citizens in the tech sector. And companies like Oracle are responsible for this. Don’t believe the BS that they are taking jobs that Americans don’t want, it’s a lie.
H1-Bs make the same as US citizens, at least the ones I managed did. They were laid off along with the citizens, and now I manage a team on the other side of the world- who don't make as much as the H-1Bs.
A quick note on the H1-B comments. Yes, it is indeed true that Oracle hired/imported many H1-B's in the past (when the limit used to be 128/256K). But now the H1-B limit is only 65K, and most of these are filled by students graduating with Masters level degrees from American universities. This is not cheap labor, they get the same rate as any other person graduating with a master's degree. Most large American companies that import talent, primarily use other vehicles like L1 or B1 visa's rather than H1's.
Often times, software companies show job advertising for the green cards process for H1Bs; showing to US government there are no qualified applicants: pure corruption
"Oracle will continue to hire the cheap labor"
Exactly. Tech workers are like lightbulbs - just a commodity. You burn them up and then replace them with the cheapest ones you can find. No different than shopping at Walmart. Besides, this is what the shareholders want.
Oracle will continue to hire the cheap labor H1Bs primarily from India while it slashes US citizens. Hasn’t everyone noticed how Oracle has turned into a major Indian hiring mecca? At the Redwood Shores building for so many years, this was SO obvious. Became hard to tell whether Oracle was a US-based company anymore.
And before anyone slams me as being anti-Indian, I’m not. Just telling it like it is with Oracle hiring practices.
You want to know why??
Because these days, it costs basically ZERO to advertise as many jobs as you want. Whether they are actual needs, or come-ons, or plain fake. Slap them up on your ATS, the more the better.
Applicants have no idea which ones are real. That’s the whole idea!!
Sounds like an opportunity to get layed off, again. Oracle is not healthy.
I would move on.
Oracle has alway, always RIF people while hiring. If your boss likes you he will mention you should apply to shift. If he doesn’t , don’t let the door hit you in the ….
I left on my own. One of my smarter moves
Anyone who was laid off in the last two weeks, and wanted to find a new role, found out very quickly that Oracle wants you to go. A few highly talented folks initially found spots in consulting, but the door was soon slammed shut after that!
They want to reduce the number ASAP, whether you were a new class of, an experienced Master, or just had been around awhile.
Many more to go!
"Thank you for the corporate respons. "
Maybe I missed it somewhere down in this long thread, but what department did you say you worked in again?
Thank you for the corporate respons.
Layoffs are 1) dept 2) location and/or 3) skill based. Each LOB and country goes on their own schedule and claims they reduction in one area with sometimes hiring of dif. skillset.
The Aug layoffs were CX Product/support and Global Marketing.
Sales layoffs are constant.
This last round included OCI and others.
And US people should add lots of numbers to the official WARN notices, since those are only legally required for people assigned to large offices. Remote layoffs or those at smaller locations don't have to be given Warn or reported publicly. So many ways around to keep your secrets. Only the financial statements have the costs, in aggregate.