Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

Well, you have your perceptions about the environment. My perception was similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDx628jn1YI&list=PLZbXA4lyCtqqLsZS4IuFcE5EoBH_x99YP&index=2

[Sung to the ending tune in the clip...}
"I have deci-ded, to worship Jiii-im"
[Repeat 3x]
"No turning back, no turning back."

“ Mention this to a "true believer", and the response is denial and defense -- your perception will never be acknowledged -- this creates a back-and-forth game of "which of us is crazy?" Then it gets personal.”

So not true. I’ve not met a “true believer” who doesn’t acknowledge that SAS has its share of issues and concerns.

Quite the opposite, All the malcontents can find lots wrong with SAS, some justifiable, and the second someone says anything even remotely positive they get all angry and lash out.

Get one of the “non believers” to say something good about current SAS. They can’t. But they can continue doing minimal work and collecting a paycheck.

The only thing keeping me sane is the belief that most of the silent people are somewhere in the middle and do acknowledge the good and the bad while actually working for their paycheck.

The vocal minority tends to su-k

“The desire to combat disingenuous bullsh-t, which I feel this company is full of, is what drives my desire to post on this site. Perhaps it's what drives other posters.”

Understandable. Fight disingenuous bullsh-t with disingenuous bullsh-t.
Fire with fire baby!

@w0+1jsetd4rb

it's good to talk about the positive plans and results, but if you read a public company annual report, there is also a clear discussion about risks that may impact those plans. the "fluff" is not so informative, but a private company can do what it wants.

The desire to combat disingenuous bullsh-t, which I feel this company is full of, is what drives my desire to post on this site. Perhaps it's what drives other posters.

One example is how they report numbers. Numbers are never concrete and comparable. The message and outcome is ALWAYS positive. To use weather as an analogy, it's as if the weather is sunny inside the walls of the SAS campus, all day, every day -- its not reality.

Mention this to a "true believer", and the response is denial and defense -- your perception will never be acknowledged -- this creates a back-and-forth game of "which of us is crazy?" Then it gets personal.

I could continue, but I'll stop here and watch while the game drags on.

@td+1jsetd4rb What you said was certainly valid, not an attack, and not “fake numbers”. SAS is rather obviously not releasing the real numbers, because vague statements and percentages make the company look better.

There is no point engaging with @tg+1jsetd4rb about this, because they don’t argue rationally. They don’t attempt to reason together and seek the truth. In fact they don’t often give reasons, but simply call your ideas “ridiculous” or “bullsh-t”. They quickly descend to personal attacks, such as “not intellectually honest” or “You drunk”.

SAS’s presentation will fool some of the people some of the time. Presenting Viya as a growth story won’t fool a private buyer, but in an IPO it will help. They’re certainly trying to position SAS as an AI company, and that will help too.

This is no attack on SAS. The people who made that Annual Report are just doing their job. When you are trying to sell a company, of course you present it in the best possible light.

@td+1jsetd4rb I’m genuinely concerned about you and think you should seek some form of counceling.

I saw a 20% groupon for a combined anger management/alcohol addiction course that you could take advantage of. I don’t actually know the cost of the course but 20% of $1,000,000 is $200,000 so beware.

The course can be found at www. Imangryanddrunk.com

“You sound so mad that I'm using a "nice low and round fake number", and I feel so sorry for you because you don't realize that's not my problem.”

I appreciate your concern. You sound like a lovely compassionate sort to feel so deeply for others. If you can just get that drinking and anger under control you’ll be s shining light in an otherwise dreary world.

I really wish I had the following gem available when I was completing my masters degree (mathematics). It would have been a great basis for a dissertation.
Eloquent and to the point in an easy to follow format…

“If your gas-guzzling SUV gets 8 mpg, me telling you that isn't an attack on the company that made the car, or you personally. It's a simple fact. If you then insist: "My car has a range of 300 miles", and I reply: "That is only possible if your car also has a 37.5 gallon tank, and you pay 2.5 times more for a tank of gas than someone whose car has the same range but gets 20 mpg", but you repeat over and over again that your SUV has a range of 300 miles, insisting that this somehow "rebuts" the fact that your SUV gets 8 mpg, you're the one who lacks intellectual honesty, as you say. That's not a "me" problem. That's a "you" problem.”

@q9+1jsetd4rb
You should ask someone to read out loud to you whatever you tap out on the keyboard before you click "Submit", my friend. It sounds like you're taking this personally, but what I said would be just as valid if it were directed at anyone incapable of understanding what, for example, "miles per gallon" means.

If your gas-guzzling SUV gets 8 mpg, me telling you that isn't an attack on the company that made the car, or you personally. It's a simple fact. If you then insist: "My car has a range of 300 miles", and I reply: "That is only possible if your car also has a 37.5 gallon tank, and you pay 2.5 times more for a tank of gas than someone whose car has the same range but gets 20 mpg", but you repeat over and over again that your SUV has a range of 300 miles, insisting that this somehow "rebuts" the fact that your SUV gets 8 mpg, you're the one who lacks intellectual honesty, as you say. That's not a "me" problem. That's a "you" problem.

You sound so mad that I'm using a "nice low and round fake number", and I feel so sorry for you because you don't realize that's not my problem.

“ No one could have predicted that.”

Fake number lovers definitely could have predicted it. They are a sharp lot.

No one could have predicted that you were going to keep replying. Because you, like myself, are incapable of not getting the last word in.

Now it is just a question of whether my reverse psychology works or your desire to make another inane comment win out. Time will tell.

Hey on your next post you should enter a nice low and round fake number on the “capcha” like thing required for each post. I’m sure it will be like “ahh good enough” and post anyway.

@nj+1jsetd4rb
No one could have predicted that.

When has this person ever acknowledged your opinion? Never! The best course of action is to walk away.

“ Off you go.”

Na. I changed my mind and your opinion of what I should do is as meaningless as the fake numbers you are such a fan of.

I really was going to be done but you just can’t help yourself so I’m back. Having a teenage level argument with a five year old.

Off you go.

@ks+1jsetd4rb Off you go.

@mf+1jsetd4rb Your powers of perception are astounding.

@ks+1jsetd4rb
You probably meant that ironically, but yes. Off you go.

@jv+1jsetd4rb “The vague wording for both Viya growth and gross sales is not confidence inspiring.”

The job of people writing that Annual Report is to present the company in the best possible light.

Evidently they decided it’s best to keep things vague.

@kk+1jsetd4rb You are right I am wrong. Your anonymous opinion is relevant and thelayoff.com is the clear place to get factual information.

Enjoy your day. I’m done.

@k6+1jsetd4rb

What you or I think about that is irrelevant.

In your opinion. You don't speak for me. Being tied financially to the success of SAS gives one a clear motive for wanting to know how the company is doing, financially. It's not weird or wrong for people to want to preserve the status quo, avoid the turbulence of losing a job or looking for a new job, or ensure future financial security for their families.

The way to win this argument is to walk away.

"It wasn’t an accident that they used a tiny made up number. Why can’t you admit that placing your own made up numbers is ridiculous?"

You are calling out the latter as being ridiculous. So why are you not calling out the former as also being ridiculous?

“There are too many people who don't understand that a "high percentage of a low number is still a low number"”

Name a single person who doesn’t know that…. Should be easy since there are so many people.

Not a single person has refuted that using percentages instead of numbers can be a way to hide things. Or equally a way to present something where you want simplicity and easy to digest.

It wasn’t an accident that they used a tiny made up number. Why can’t you admit that placing your own made up numbers is ridiculous?

You don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t have to know everything….
It is a private company. They can publish what they want how they want.

What you or I think about that is irrelevant.

@gw+1jsetd4rb

Sticking with the idea that he was merely using meaningless numbers as an example in order to demonstrate that a % is not a $ is exactly what I called it.

In your opinion. In my opinion, intellectual honesty is in short supply around here. There are too many people who don't understand that a "high percentage of a low number is still a low number", for example. Learning how language, and especially numbers, are used to control and deceive is an essential skill for a modern, educated, literate human. Imagine being fooled by something so trivially easy to refute simply by understanding why someone would deliberately use a percentage increase to describe a relationship between two numbers instead of the numbers themselves, which anyone with a third grade education could then use to calculate the percentage increase for themselves. Imagine celebrating this dishonesty by constantly repeating that the lie is the only truth. Kind of a metaphor for where we find ourselves nationally, really.

"SAS continues to record more than $3 billion in annual sales... We recorded 24% growth in SAS Viya sales."

Many have speculated that a 24 percent igrowth in Viya sales could be skewed or meaningless for various reasons. I agree.

So far no one has commented on "more than 3 billion". It would be more calming if actual gross sales each year were stated. "More than 3 billion" could mean less than last years sales but still above 3 billion. In other words shrinking gross revenue.

The vague wording for both Viya growth and gross sales is not confidence inspiring. Better transparency and illumination is needed.

@gw+1jsetd4rb Again with the ad hominem attacks.

Calling a person not “intellectually honest” carries the same weight as “bullsh-t”. Or “stupid”. Or “deliberately misleading”. These aren’t rational arguments.

I don’t know what you are so angry about, but I don’t have time for it.

“ your arguments so often reduce to the word “Bullsh-t”.”

I work with what I’m given. When I work with intellectually honest folks you will never hear that word no matter how much I disagree.

Sticking with the idea that he was merely using meaningless numbers as an example in order to demonstrate that a % is not a $ is exactly what I called it. You know it and I know it.

@gg+1jsetd4rb your arguments so often reduce to the word “Bullsh-t”.

But it is probable that Viya revenues increased 24% from a low number.

“ Their point was that percentages don't show revenues.”

Bullsh-t. I don’t think anyone here needs someone to explain that a percentage is not a dollar figure…. This isn’t third grade.

His point was that a high percentage of a low number is still a low number. 24%=24% regardless of how many bullsh-t “example” numbers are added.

They used to play that game with VA, too. Bundle it for free with another purchase, then book the sale as a VA sale.

Oh, I see now. It's a statistical aggregation game!

So SAS doesn’t report Viya revenues because a) they’re low, or b) they have no accurate number. I’m not sure which is worse.

For “SAS” “Viya” jobs, I count 33 on Indeed, 5 on LinkedIn. Some of those are contract or temporary jobs.

Easy to boost Viya by 24 percent. Include if for free as part of a bundle.

The real test is Viya usage. Has the market demand for the Viya skillset increased on sites such as Indeed?

"because SAS lets sales reps do their own allocation of bundled sales receipts among the bundled products, SAS has no way to measure the revenue attributable to any single product"
If Viya was part of a bundle and a bootlicking sales rep assigned the entirety of the bundle value to Viya that could be one way to show a 24 percent growth for Viya.

Doubtful that will fly with GAAP.

"$1,000,000 > $1,240,000 = '24% growth in SAS Viya sales'. Hardly impressive. No word on actual revenue?"

@fj+1jsetd4rb The poster asked for revenues. Their point was that percentages don't show revenues.

An annual report’s purpose is to present a positive image of the company. So if Viya revenues were impressive, SAS would show them.

@fh+1jsetd4rb

pointless

@fc+1jsetd4rb I’m always up for better understanding so please enlighten me what their point with the following was if not to imply that Viya has low revenue making the 24% “hardly impressive”. I’m serious. What was the point that you got and I didn’t?

“ $1,000,000 > $1,240,000 = "24% growth in SAS Viya sales". Hardly impressive.”

Only SAS people would take over an entire thread with pointless bickering. Hope you both took the retirement package. You sound insufferable.

@f7+1jsetd4rb
Was it, though? I understood the point the poster you're mocking was making, but you didn't and still don't. Interesting. Who's mocking who again?

“ How intentionally misleading. Now people will think Viya made $1 last year and $1.24 this year.”

Sometimes you just have to embrace the stupidity…

The “Most impressive” part really made me believe that they were innocent round numbers that were merely an example.

@f8+1jsetd4rb
A Statistics company that does not categorize sales accurately. The irony...

How intentionally misleading. Now people will think Viya made $1 last year and $1.24 this year.

“ Speaking of which, you don't know what sales are actual Viya sales, and which are bundled. More smoke and mirrors.”

Exactly. And as always, because SAS lets sales reps do their own allocation of bundled sales receipts among the bundled products, SAS has no way to measure the revenue attributable to any single product.