Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

“But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education su-ks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the ba--s. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fu---d by a system that threw them overboard 30 fu--ing years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just d-mb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fu--ing place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich co-----ckers who don’t give a fu-k about them. They don’t give a fu-k about you. They don’t give a fu-k about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue di-k that's being jammed up their a--holes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”
― George Carlin

Well at least I will have my social security I paid into for 50+ years.... Right? RIGHT?? RIGHT!!!!!????!!!

love that chatgpt answer. if you did that on gpt.honeywell.com then i will be able to identify you. everything is recorded for quality.

You’re correct that Honeywell employees may misunderstand the extent of their pension plan’s protection. Here’s the breakdown:

1. Is Honeywell’s Pension Federally Protected?

• Yes, but with limits.
• If it is a single-employer defined benefit plan, it is protected under ERISA and PBGC (Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation) rules, but that does not mean it’s untouchable.
• Honeywell can still change, freeze, or modify the plan unless it has already been terminated and taken over by PBGC.
• Multi-employer and single-employer plans both have risks—just because it is “federally protected” does not mean the company can’t touch it.

2. When Is a Pension Fully Protected?

• Only if the company officially terminates it and PBGC takes over.
• If Honeywell keeps the plan but makes changes (e.g., freezing benefits, reducing future accruals), they can do that within ERISA rules.
• If Honeywell offloads the pension to an insurance company (a pension buyout or annuity transfer):
• It is no longer covered by PBGC.
• The insurance company, not the government, guarantees your payments.

3. Does Arbitration Affect PBGC Protection?

• Yes. If a pension dispute goes into arbitration, PBGC does not automatically take over.
• Arbitration typically happens when disputes arise over funding obligations, plan changes, or employer liability.
• PBGC only steps in if the plan is officially terminated and underfunded.
• If the company still operates the pension and is disputing funding responsibilities, PBGC does not automatically cover it.

4. Where’s the Proof?

• ERISA (29 U.S. Code § 1341) – Plan Termination Rules
• PBGC only takes over if the employer formally terminates the plan and it lacks enough funds.
• Source: ERISA § 1341
• PBGC Coverage Limits
• PBGC does not protect pensions that are transferred to an insurance company (e.g., annuities).
• Source: PBGC Official FAQ
• ERISA Arbitration Rules (For Pension Disputes, Not PBGC Takeover)
• Arbitration applies to funding disputes and liability assessments, but PBGC does not intervene until plan termination.
• Source: ERISA § 4221

Bottom Line:
• Employees are wrong if they believe the pension is untouchable unless it’s already terminated and under PBGC.
• Both single-employer and multi-employer plans can be altered by the company under certain conditions.
• Arbitration does not guarantee PBGC coverage—PBGC steps in only if the plan is terminated and underfunded.
• If Honeywell spins off or transfers the pension to an insurance company, PBGC will no longer protect it.

Would you like help confirming Honeywell’s current pension funding status?

What could possibly go wrong?????

Why would Honeywell try and reduce your pension or take away benefits? Oh..........

If you trust Honeywell, everything should be okay. If you know him as a dirt ba--s we do, it could get ugly.

Yes, if Honeywell spins off a division into an independent company and that new company has trouble funding your pension plan, arbitration could occur, but bankruptcy is not necessarily required for this to happen. Here’s how it works:

1. When Does Arbitration Happen?

• Arbitration can occur before bankruptcy if there is a dispute over pension funding, withdrawal liability, or plan terms.
• If the spun-off company stops contributing to a multi-employer plan, the plan could assess withdrawal liability, which typically leads to mandatory arbitration under ERISA before the company even files for bankruptcy.
• If it’s a single-employer plan, arbitration might happen if the company disputes funding obligations or changes the pension terms in a way that violates the agreement.

2. Does Bankruptcy Have to Happen First?

• No, bankruptcy is not required for arbitration to take place.
• Arbitration is triggered by disputes, which can happen before financial failure.
• However, if the new company declares bankruptcy and cannot fund the pension, then:
• PBGC (Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation) may take over if the pension is underfunded.
• If a union or group of employees disputes the pension obligations, they may request arbitration before a full legal battle.
• ERISA-mandated arbitration kicks in for multi-employer withdrawal liability cases before any court involvement.

3. Where’s the Proof?

• ERISA § 4221 (29 U.S. Code § 1401) – Mandatory Arbitration for Withdrawal Liability
• If a company withdraws from a multi-employer pension plan, arbitration is required before any lawsuit can be filed.
• Source: ERISA Section 4221
• Honeywell Pension Plan Documents
• The Summary Plan Description (SPD) for Honeywell’s pension plan will outline the dispute resolution process, including arbitration.
• If you have access, check your pension trust agreement or CBA if you were a union worker.
• PBGC Guidelines
• PBGC can step in if a pension is at risk.
• Source: PBGC website

Bottom Line
• If Honeywell spins off a division and the new independent company has funding issues, arbitration can take place before bankruptcy if there’s a dispute over pension obligations.
• If the company goes bankrupt, pension disputes may be handled through PBGC or bankruptcy courts, depending on the situation.
• Arbitration is most likely if there’s withdrawal liability from a multi-employer plan or disputes over pension contributions.

Would you like help locating specific pension documents or checking PBGC coverage for your plan?

Yes, if a company is spun off and remains under the same name but operates as an independent company, and it has trouble funding your pension plan, the situation could lead to arbitration, depending on the plan’s structure and agreements. Here’s how it works:

1. Arbitration and Pension Disputes

• If your pension is covered under a collective bargaining agreement (CBA) or a multi-employer pension plan, then funding disputes often go to arbitration as required by the plan’s governing documents or federal labor laws (such as the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, or ERISA).
• For single-employer defined benefit plans, if the new independent company (after the spin-off) struggles to fund the pension, there may be arbitration provisions in the plan document, but typically, disputes first go through an internal claims process before escalating to arbitration or legal action.
• If the spun-off company can’t fund the pension and it is a PBGC-covered plan, PBGC may step in if the plan is terminated due to insufficient funding.

2. Where’s the Proof?

• ERISA (§ 4221 of 29 U.S. Code) mandates arbitration for disputes related to employer withdrawal liability from multi-employer pension plans.
• Your pension plan documents (Summary Plan Description or Trust Agreement) outline dispute resolution mechanisms, including arbitration.
• Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA): If you were part of a union, the CBA may require arbitration for pension funding disputes.
• PBGC Guidance: If the spun-off company cannot fund the pension and the plan is covered by PBGC, the pension may be taken over by PBGC. You can check PBGC’s website (www.pbgc.gov) for guidance on distressed plans.

If you are concerned about your specific pension after a spin-off, it’s best to review your plan’s Summary Plan Description (SPD) and contact your plan administrator for details on arbitration and funding security. Let me know if you need help finding specific documents!

If the company cannot fund your pension, then going to arbitration with the federal government and reduce it. It does not automatically go into the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC).

In 2008 a lot of companies dumped it into this program. It almost went belly up. They asked the federal government if they could charge more on the premium companies paying. Now I guess they’re lobbying to have it removed so they don’t have to pay these premiums.

This can all be proven.

Take the lump sum if you can

If they cannot find your records they will make up some excuse not to pay you Any way to increase profits

I can attest to the long time it takes to get a pension payout estimate. I am guessing the pension records are stored in that limestone mine where the federal worker files are stored.... ;-)

If nobody is paying money into it the northern trust fund it will dry up and go away... I think when an employee retires, Honeywell pays NT a sum of $$$ to take on the liability. It's a gamble, NT wants you to expire on day 1 of retirement and they make out big

"Honeywell" has so many legacy pension plans due to amalgamations that generalizations beyond what the law requires are impossible.

so cute you think laws matter. laws are like fences.. they only work if you have enough resources to stand watch and shoot people who climb over.

No insight but the laws for single payer pensions in the USA are pretty clear

I would expect the plans under Aero to go there. Example UOPs pension will go with the business UOP goes with (Specialty Materials?)

Check out X/Groknor ChatGPT about it

The primary federal law for private pension insurance in the United States is part of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) of 1974. Specifically, ERISA established the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), which insures certain types of private defined benefit pension plans.

The PBGC provides a safety net for workers and retirees in the event their pension plan fails, ensuring that they receive at least a portion of their earned pension benefits. However, this insurance does not cover all types of private pensions, particularly defined contribution plans like 401(k)s.

If nobody is paying money into it the northern trust fund it will dry up and go away

It was brought up in our skip level meeting last week nothing yet from HR. I requested what mine is worth back in January n finally got paper work today what month layer how hectic does it take that long to figure it out hah worse than how Kronos been. Psh unreal billion dollar company can't get things straight

What if you are already retired and on the annuity plan (Pension handled by Northern Trust immune to breakup) ?

Whichever way it can work out worst for employees will be the way it gets engineered to work out. Agreed about lump-summing it - at least that way you get something.

Take the lump sum if it can work for you.

One thing is 100% certain, Honeywell hates pensions almost as much as they hate employees. Any chance to eliminate will be taken.

If you are going to retire before the breakup is complete I would take the lump sum payout. That may be the only money you get out of Honeywell

Nobody will know for several years