Thread regarding IBM layoffs

Really good reply : @5nkq

Sigh where to begin... the messes and rabbit holes this industry goes down... we've lost our way as an industry... we should be progressing towards fewer better ways of doing things... not splintering into 100's of similar but different (and often incompatible) ways of doing the same data shuffling...that is inefficient... because is splinters and waste human effort in 1000 ways...

I'll wade in...

1. "You’re looking at it wrong. No one said it’s far suoerior”. It’s incrementally better and more efficient. "

Re : No it's not... how is something like Java with it's JVM "better and more efficient?" Or some new language like Python, etc? It's not... it just another rehash of old ideas. z/VM's origins are in the 1960's for example.

2. "That’s like saying the computer from 10 years ago is just as good as the same model today. Malarkey."

Re : Not talking about hardware platforms... but since you brought it up... zSeries is still the most advanced general computing platform out there.

100. "Also the problem is products don’t want to update and keep pace with features... so someone else says “f it, I can do this better...”

And they make a version that’s better."

Re : The list of bugs in Bugzilla tells me this isn't the case. Seriously... what is any of this "new technology" really doing that wasn't being done in the 80's by mainframes?

It's the same stuff with different wrappers... a marketing success is about all. Nothing truly better about it... just a different pile of code.

I once looked at the source of the much congratulated "Chrome V8 Engine" at the heart of Node.js... some messy code as any other thing out there.

Worse yet... Lars Bak states "I hate documenting and leave it to others"... so before it was ever decently documented he ran away to play with Dart or something...

I'm not saying the things I'm saying... without the experiences to back it up...

500. "Your exact thinking is why there is competition and many versions of things. You don’t want to update software and keep it going with the latest trends. "

Re : Your thinking has led to greater and greater computer messes... a myriad of incompatible-compatible platforms (LOL!)... Consider how many applications only work "correctly" on one of the 3 main browsers etc.

5. "You probably love Lotus notes and sametime and don’t understand any reason why we need new software to replace it. "

Re : If it works better than the replacement stick with it. It's just common sense. Churn for the sake of "newness"... "bright shiney things" is a waste of life. Perhaps that's what you miss.

The idea is to get things going... and let them do their thing... not wasting life constantly redoing the same stuff... learning some new convoluted way to achieve the same result... That's inefficient use of life. Duh!

The whole point of computers is automation... not churning and constant coding...

Your attitude is that of "disposable" and "planned obsolesence"... both of which are destroying the planet. But that's a larger discussion.

FWIW Slack has not turned out to be a better way. Even it's founder called it a "steaming pile"... LOL!

6. "You are a perfect example of the bitter old dinosaur at IBM that doesn’t want to evolve with technology. If you don’t like change, an IT company isn’t for you. Go work in insurance or vacuum sales."

Re : You're the the perfect example of the "anti-engineer"... even though you think you are not... your attitude actually comes from the sales side... believe it or not...

An engineer wants to make something that solves the problem once and for all and lasts...

It's salesmen that want to add some new chrome trim and sell it as the next year's model... "Shiny new stuff!!!... Get yours here!!!"...

That's wasteful sillyness... but it is how our economic system dooms us to gut the planet and waste our lives...

The need for constant revenue drives your thinking, even though you don't realize it.

You've been assimilated into "The Borg" so to speak... without even realizing it. You are thinking as viewed from here.

Oh well, you know what they say... "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it"...

Would be nice if we could confine it to those who don't know... unfortunately... in this biz... those folks seem to drive projects... sadly because our measurement systems reward the wrong things.

But I think that discussion is a little premature for you at this point...

When your new toys that you favor get churned for no good reason... c'mon back and let's talk... LOL!

You’re looking at it wrong. No one said it’s far suoerior”. It’s incrementally better and more efficient. That’s like saying the computer from 10 years ago is just as good as the same model today. Malarkey.
Also the problem is products don’t want to update and keep pace with features... so someone else says “f it, I can do this better...”
And they make a version that’s better.

Your exact thinking is why there is competition and many versions of things. You don’t want to update software and keep it going with the latest trends. You probably love Lotus notes and sametime and don’t understand any reason why we need new software to replace it. You are a perfect example of the bitter old dinosaur at IBM that doesn’t want to evolve with technology. If you don’t like change, an IT company isn’t for you. Go work in insurance or vacuum sales.

Agree with "@4dcq+1b6fzJWY "... pointless technological churn is a PITA. LOL!

The idea is to build systems to do tasks... and let them... not to be constantly relearning new ways to do same things, and in the process spending a period of time being incompetent while doing so. Not to mention the bug fixes, etc.

Stability is a virtue.

"...are willing to learn new thing..."

I think you'll find even the greybeards are willing to learn new things... when they are truly new and are not just some other way of doing the same things...

So much of what passes for "new" are just these reinventions.

How many browsers do we need? How many ticketing systems? How many languages that all have to have a certain set of basic features to be a complete language at all? How many project management methods du jure, etc,?

Constant churning to do same ol' stuff... complete waste of time... and rightfully scorned as a waste of time, energy, money...

Truly new things with value... different story.

Grass isn’t greener but I’ll tell you what is better elsewhere - your coworkers. It’s incredible to finally work with motivated, competent coworkers who aren’t arrogant and are willing to learn new things. It also helps that we’re motivated by better compensation at my new company. It really is true, you get what you pay for.

"...All ibm products are old tech or started there.
Ibm can't compete in new markets ..."

While it's true there is a problem competing in "new markets"... truth is... many of those new markets are fad driven... many of them are just catching up to mainframe capabilities if at all.

the zSeries boxes and much of the core software on them have features the "new stuff" has to catch up too.

Heck I can remember reading in Adrian King's "Inside Windows 95" (yes a long time ago)... that he said the scheduling algo in Win 95 was "... taken from an old mainframe OS..."...

The idea that the "new stuff" is "technically superior" strikes me as faulty... rather it's just a different pile of code, to do the same old stuff... shuffle data around.

IBM's failure is more of a marketing failure and a presentation failure... had a more graphical environment been grafted onto 3270's (and it did exist... 3279G + GGDM... right?)... maybe history would have been different.

And perhaps not... cost is an issue... PC's (which IBM also made a real thing in the market with the IBM PC)... so at home hackers could not have been MF hackers easily...

But ultimately, most of what passes for "new technology"... really isn't truly "more advanced".

Same for fads like Agile as well... Fred Brooks confronted most of this industry's planning issues long ago as detailed in "The Mythical Man Month (2nd)"...

Same ol' same ol'... Next generation doesn't want to learn the old generation's stuff... so it goes on to reinvent the wheel...

(Makes me think of the Tesla... what's so extraordinary about a battery powered car??? They existed in the late 1800's and were kids toys in the 60's... LOL!)

All ibm products are old tech or started there.
Ibm can't compete in new markets

What department? Maybe it was old tech dead weight. Was it a lotus product?

I started working at ibm in 2011 and my department consisted of about 350 to 400 folks 90 percent technical. I left ibm in February of this year and the department was below 100 folks with about 20 percent technical and the rest sales , managers that manage no one, vp, cto . And no projects on the pipeline. Basically they have destroyed ibm. Sad.

Rofl at people that think hr posts on here. Really? Why would they bother. They don’t care about employees in the work place, why would they care about what they do on some random internet site. You people are delusional.

Can confirm. They are full of p-o. The grass is not greener. You should go on Blind and see all the posts from other tech companies. Wlb issues, mental health issue and toxic culture exists everywhere. Even in faang.

OP you are exactly where you deserve to be. Best wishes for all the worst.

Was RAd late last year in Australia. Working now for a company that is not on IT business, have a great job, with latest cloud tech, no stress and good team to work with. Very good use for my skills and experience. And earn more. No we do not use IBM. Why would you, can't see any use case at all. BTW, I'm getting IBM emails flogging Vmware on their sorry cloud for a $500 off. Must be IBM's defunct marketing department at work... believing they can still manage to sell last year's snow

Was RAd late last year in Australia. Working now for a company that is not on IT business, have a great job, with latest cloud tech, no stress and good team to work with. Very good use for my skills and experience. And earn more. No we do not use IBM. Why would you, can't see any use case at all. BTW, I'm getting IBM emails flogging Vmware on their sorry cloud for a $500 off. Must be IBM's defunct marketing department at work... believing they can still manage to sell last year's snow

Was RAd late last year in Australia. Working now for a company that is not on IT business, have a great job, with latest cloud tech, no stress and good team to work with. Very good use for my skills and experience. And earn more. No we do not use IBM. Why would you, can't see any use case at all. BTW, I'm getting IBM emails flogging Vmware on their sorry cloud for a $500 off. Must be IBM's defunct marketing department at work... believing they can still manage to sell last year's snow

A woeful 2% 401k match from kyndryl means it's only a temp job at best.
Susy Orman would say that's financial su----e staying with a dump like that.
Some people will never leave until they are RA'd though.

False!!! I work for AWS and make a ton more than what I made at IBM with less stress. Yes, it’s a job like any other job, but it’s different. Here, I’m pressured to innovate and come up with the next big idea. At ibm, it was a constant worry about layoffs, and I could never execute on anything because even if I had the most brilliant idea, there were never resources to do anything. Life was just miserable. I was over worked to the limit.

The Ibm with the greener grass died 10 to 15 years ago.

OP isn't wrong. Work sucks everywhere.

Just keep stacking money aggressively until you can comfortably walk away from the corporate world.

From people I worked with in IBM, people I respect, all hardworking, professional individuals I have come to conclusion that in this particular case the green is mostly MUCH greener anywhere else but IBM. Not always the case, but most often.

Very sad.

Lmao you people can't see further than cisco and oracle to compare against!! Omg! The tech salaries have surpassed these companies long ago, that's what i meant in my original comment
Even the sh---y (culture wise) amazon offers 2x-3x ibm

To @smc+1b6fzJWY
Welcome back to IBM. Your case is probably not common and you have special skills.
Best wishes!

IBM HR or someone who is good at finding sh---y company (3 in 6 yrs). Welcome back. You totally deserve IBM.

Lots of people on here are narrow minded and call any post they don’t like as HR. Waste of time but they are the ones who have to live with their juvenile attitude. To original poster - don’t take them personally - they aren’t worth it.

Oracle never had the reputation as a good place to work at. Recently Cisco has more competition so has had to tighten its belt. Of course they are worse companies to work at than IBM, but there are many companies that are better than IBM. You make the choice.

If you do decide to stay, be prepared with the skills to get a job at one of the better companies, because sooner or later you will probably need to do this, since many IBMers may not get to choose when they retire.

I know nobody wants to hear this in this forum but OP is generally correct given the 3 others I've been at (Oracle, Cisco, etc). It doesn't make it ok. But we can't keep using the 5 most profitable companies as a kind of normalcy for everyone... IBM healthcare is awful, and they don't reward people with good promotions but they do award high salary to people who leave and then come back. I've been pleasantly surprised twice with way more than asking. Is this the usual? Probably not. But thought I'd share and wait to get called an HR or something.

lol nice try hr

IBM started declining long before 2013. When the Basic Beliefs became "legacy" the company started its slide. Now IBM is ruining the lives of tens of thousands of employees to make up for decades of mismanagement. And OP thinks that happens everywhere? No, it only happens at once-great companies that have decayed.

I believe ibm was a great place to work at one time. At least for me after 2013 started declining and before I left it was horrible place. Definitely I’m better of and now I could see how bad it was at ibm. Sweatshop

Decades ago, some of my coworkers came from top ranked universities, such as Harvard, Caltech, Stanford, etc. and spent their careers at IBM. Now I’m told IBM no longer recruits at the top schools because of retention.

Wonder why they don’t stay?

Shut up HR!! This is a pathetic attempt to convince people that things are so great at IBM.

If you came back for "money" to ibm you obviously didn't rebound from any prestigious tech/consulting/startup so your views are irrelevant or maybe you're some hr propagandist.

Ibm is literally minimum wage in tech (obviously compared to good tech companies)