I was part of a senior leadership call on Corporate Risk and as an additional push for attrition there will be a third party validation of education and certifications across multiple groups starting with Corp Risk. Buckle up people.
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I have no education, so nothing to worry about for me!
Heck we still have people running products that aren’t FINRA licensed.....
So playing classical music in a "good" orchestra is a VERY fine example of absolutely total PERFECT teamwork, the use of logic and math in reading the music, and mind/body coordination to translate the read music into physical actions to produce the final perfect end result. Just like programming with a group of team members.
You should listen to this.
It is a GREAT piece of music, shows everyone in the orchestra in perfect sync as a team. This is a piece of music I played in my High School orchestra. Something to enjoy and learn from as well.
Beethoven - Symphony No. 5 (Proms 2012)
8,672,802 views
•Aug 15, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv2WJMVPQi8
orchestra
a group of instrumentalists, especially one combining string, woodwind, brass, and percussion sections and playing classical music.
Maybe they’ll actually realize the depth of my education and experience now.
OP- did you leave out the extra details @1fef heard on purpose? Seems like that was some important context.
So? They should have done this when hiring already.
Is classical music hard to play?
Classical music is vastly more difficult to play. “Etudes” are a type of music written specifically to be difficult - to develop your skills in a certain area. Also, compared to classical, pop music is relatively simple. Classical music has a wider range in basically everything - dynamics, pitch, note values, etc.
Actually I can attribute a lot of my logical skill as a programmer from the 4 years of music classes during high school. Learning to read the very complex classical music of Ludwig van Beethoven and playing it via clarinet and saxophone during the High School concerts and shows that we put on. So FUN too! A B.A. in Psychology and advanced college study in programming. Accounting, Economics, Banking college courses, etc. too. Lot's of technical programming classes, a college course in logic, mentoring from my co-workers, some of which attended Harvard, etc. Life is not all about having a special degree for a job, you can learn to be an expert at the required skills via other paths. But a certificate is nice to have, if you have the time and money to acquire it.
@1pgv+17OClUgk You mention psychology. You could possibly the key to helping Charlie move his EQ a little closer to his (supposedly high) IQ. You should volunteer. You could hang with the many pretty people in he city, and I swear, some of them of them are girls.
@1ajz+17OClUgk , is it 18 months from company start date or start date in role?
@1ajz+17OClUgk
Thank you for sharing that additional detail. That makes a lot more sense.
To OP - if this was the call I was also on they clearly stated they will only start with those who had a start date 18 months or less - they specifically are starting there (or ending there) because of the consent order and we were to improve since that submission. I did not hear them say they were going back 20 years - it was specifically for ORCs and above and start dates 18 months back from March 2020. You are correct it will start with only a handful of locations. IMO this is to satisfy the audit request and attrition push. It would be nice to have group leaders approve education and certification funds!
I have none so that should save them some time
@1mto+17OClUgk It could be two-fold. In some cases, the employee may be fired. In other cases, they may be given a timeframe to complete the certification (typically 6 months).
@1pgv+17OClUgk it's not just the degrees. You mention psychology. In order to keep your license, you have to perform CPEs or CEUs. Same thing for lawyers. Same thing for risk certifications. Having a current certification you earned 20 years ago means that you are maintaining that certification by attending seminars, continuing education, or participating in activities to stay current and relevant in risk/compliance.
I can see this for go forward but if you have been working 25 years what does your Psychology degree you got two decades ago matter? I get it for specific skills but a degree is not exactly a gold standard. There are people with degrees that cannot tie their shoes and people with no degree that are geniuses.
I am curious as to where they’d pull down this info. Talent Management System?
I work in a group where a number of senior leadership didn’t pass the CRCM and yet many of the more junior employees have
I think the “firm” should also have criminal background checks refreshed periodically per policy. The fact that someone had a clean record 20 years ago does not mean they have a clean one today. I’m sure that would alone allow generate pretty good “attrition”.
Once this process is executed, which could take years just like anything at WFC, I am certain that we will find employees that have lied about their degrees and certifications and were able to advance to more senior positions in the Bank as a result of those lies. I am confident they will argue that they have the “years of experience” as a way to minimize their lies. The writing is on the wall.
I was also on this call and it was based on an audit recommendation / observation that specifically education background checks needed to be completed (college and certifications). The verification process will only begin with ORC5 and up in a phased approach - locations in Charlotte, Delaware are first with others within phases approach. They have already ramped up the third party vendor to start the process. I guess education background matters more than experience- go figure.
I am the ONLY employee (manager client facing) with an MBA in my entire Middle Market Banking region over five states. Plus for the 11 years I have been here - we talk with client CEOs on private matters across this entire MMB platform where no RM is FINRA certified - nor are all executives in Investment banking or capital markets or strategic capital. THAT is what compliance is targeting I’m sure. Proper federal credentials and client facing public/private information. Big problem! Especially when all bankers at our competitors have these credentials and are monitored and pass FINRA exams before being allowed to manage a client portfolio.
What about the Sr Managers and Directors that don’t even come close to meeting the minimum requirements of the job? I know of at least one Sr Manager in risk that has almost zero risk experience when the job family description calls for 11+ years.
@1xqr+17OClUgk they've had 20+ years to get it squared away. No sympathy at all. They took the place of a qualified person and helped WF reach the point where they are today.
All employees or just managers?
For those that have been with the company for 20+ years, do they plan to use your original job application to do this?
I think i am over educate for this job and company; hope they find that out too!
I am so glad they are about to launch this check. A lot of people in risk and controls will now need to get their bags packed. Tech control is a particularly bad place . Many of the highly qualified and fully certified people are languishing while some inept and unqualified people are at the top.
With WF deciding to not approve certification renewal expenses many won’t (be able to) maintain their certifications . Looks like we have some MRA s coming .
Btw, all organizations reimburse certification renewal expenses . WF will be the first one to stop this. It is a ridiculously small expense that pays back really well.
@wdu+17OClUgk are you one of those managers in risk and compliance who are completely incompetent? So many longtime managers in risk and compliance have zero certifications and they are supposed to lead us out from under the asset cap. While certifications don't necessarily indicate a persons ability to run or manage a risk program, if you've been in risk for 5 - 10 years and know what you are doing, it should not be difficult to pass a CISSP, CISA, CISM, OR CIA certification exam. On top of that WF paid for cert exams for a long time. I don't know if they still do or not.
Very good. It should be done periodically regardless of attrition. I’m tired of fake records at Wells Fargo. The next question is how does WF also ensures that those hires who have no credentials (no college degree, no certs, no outside experience) are scrutinized as well?
My education was verified when I was hired so I don't see an issue. If you have the degree or certificates no worries, if you lied, then well that is your own fault.
Good. Start with Charlie. He isn’t the diversity hire we were promised.
@wdu+17OClUgk not really. It was probably on the application for the job. That's why many employers will still require an applicant to fill out an application even if they know that's who they intend to hire. The language on the application (either online or paper) will include verbiage such as "to the best of my knowledge the application is complete and accurate". Frankly, I'm all for.this. I'm tired of working with unqualified people. If you didn't lie on the application, there shouldn't be an issue.
INot exactly sure where the issue here is? Most job requirements are based on years of experience- not education. When it is education, it's typically only a preferred requirement (ie masters or law degree) which may also be subbed for years of experience.
so where's the concern? Is there a thought that people have lied about their education and or certifications obtained? It would be interesting though as they'd have to have everyone sign some type of background authorization to verify that info again, wouldn't they?
a while back (this year) there was a very in depth survey that went out to many areas (not just corp risk) to self assess various risk management, process management and cross-enterprise management skills. it not only asked for self assessment of level of skills, but also the basis of the expertise (I.e. a degree, non degree certification, work experience, etc). This has to do with a finding from one of our many deficiencies in the eyes of the regulators that sr mgt did not adequately monitor or determine the qualifications of EEs in key function (LOB, risk, functional groups) in order to ensure proper risk mgt. Validating people's educational claims may be part of this same effort to demonstrate adequate oversight on this.
I've worked for finance companies where I have had to submit college transcripts, so don't think this is out of the ordinary
How is this a negative? If you don’t have certifications and the proper education that the position requires, they should not hired you. Additionally, if a person is balking up their resume with certifications and degrees he/she doesn’t have, that would be a lie; therefore, the person should be terminated. Not sure how that is a negative for a company?