Is there any hope left for EMIT people in SG? should we all just look for jobs else where?
5508 replies (most recent on top)
Seeing some of these fake news, toxic complains made me wonder why EM hire kids. Shldnt adults be more professional?
@5frbj+16zEvLP3 spot on. Leave for the better, stay for the battle.
It's own choice guys, adults decide for themselves. No right or wrong to leave, or stay (if you can't find a better job). At the end of the day, is what you want and do not regret your choice in future.
Exactly, they can't find a way to Cope harder.
5fngc+16zEvLP3
Lmao, the losers are the disgruntled EM employees lurking in the layoff forums during office hours.
this company is funny. Need email to tell you that they continue paying you what they should have in the form of AWS, and the crowd goes shouting hurray!
Our standards have dropped so much. Do you need HR to drop you an email to tell you every month that they are going to pay your salary on time?
The losers that “left” (more like low performers) are still roaming here like we all suspected. So insecure and jealous they are losing out. Come and spread fake news and toxicity. Good riddance! We will have a better life without them
5fufe+16zEvLP3
You do you.
Peace and have a poor life.
@5eldv+16zEvLP3 Those that left, gave up lah. Don’t put it as though you were head hunted. You applied because you know you are destined for NSI!
Peace and have a good life.
@5eeev+16zEvLP3 most of us who left for better opportunites are still here to mock at how sorry u guys are. It feels good seeing u guys do badly in life.
The situation is improving to what extent? You choose to see the glass as 10% full, that’s fine. But you can’t ignore the 90% emptiness. Good luck.
Lol cos he sour grapes that the situation is improving. Proves the earlier posts about losers who left but spreading fake news and toxicity. I’m sure he got “40%”, probably pay cut… good another deadweight is gone
@5euxu+16zEvLP3 Troll. Why lurk here if life is so good? Got rejected by EM and cannot let go?
@5eirg+16zEvLP3 - you from management is it? Keep assuming people are leeching from the company because you are one giant leech yourself? Takes one to know one.
I have already left to a new company in tech, taking a 40% increment in the process. Of course, my PA results were strong but can’t stay in the company for cr---y increments like what they did in China right? Oh - my new company has a lot of the perks which we used to enjoy, so no sour grapes please
lol that’s what they said this year bfore the email came out to tell you stop spreading fake news. Next year, u can copy and paste ur message again. Do it every year until ur right and then proclaim “SEE I TOLD YOU”
@5esrd+16zEvLP3
But u still around leeching the company LOL. Based on your logic, let’s stay in the company and keep complaining because nothing left to be happy about
@https://www.thelayoff.com/post/@5evdj+16zEvLP3
What makes you say that?
You definitely can’t work until retirement for sure. Who else is going to prop up the youngsters and ang moh expats to be in very good and above?
What disgusts me is that the LCM still comes out and sell the PA program as a good program to make us more competitive. I hope she doesn’t really believe in this.
This year AWS is to slowdown the resignation and will be our last 3 months.
The next HR announcement will not be pleased to everyone. Very likely will left 1 month and base pay will be adjusted accordingly to the ranking.
Not only is trust gone (no thanks to DW), but the guarantee of a stable job - which had kept generations of Esso and Mobil employees working loyally, right up to their last day of retirement.
Right now with PA / NSI, you don’t even know if you can last till your retirement age, as legislated by Singapore’s Employment Act!
You’d probably be asked to go, over the next few years, as your PA results slide into NSI category (inevitably, as the vacuum forms below, when more and more fail PIP, or elect to resign voluntarily themselves.
Unless you can sustain yourself, consistently at Very Good (or higher category). Good is unsafe. NI = your head will be next on the chopping block!
With such mental and psychological stresses bombarding you every day and sleepless nights, how long can you tahan, before you yourself breakdown?
Then … your family and children, how??
I don’t believe there’s so many deadweights. We lost a lot more experience than we wanted, and there’s going to be a long lasting impact on how the company will progress. Stop kidding ourselves that things will be normal once we keep the AWS and promotions will return. Trust is gone and we won’t be able to take the Great Leap Forward. You can shout we are ExxonMobil all you want, but the soul of the company is dead, and DW basically sold it to the devil to pay himself dividends.
Company situation is improving! Dead weights gone, increment and AWS coming! Toast to that! We are truly ExxonMobil
@5etxk+16zEvLP3
I got 28% after 7 years in company.
Sad but true, myself encounter many managers too and this is one of the reason why I choose to leave just recently. How the local managers here lead are still way behind compared to what I experience when being assigned by the company for a short stint abroad and working under the leadership of a Dutch and an Englishman once upon a time. And yes, I've got 1.5 months pro-rated AWS and cashed out ten days of my annual leave.
What’s the increment offered by shopee ? Does anyone know ?
Then why u still around? Or are u laid off and back to troll lol loser
What a joke! Regardless chicken head or chicken feet, all will be slaughtered eventually
@5ddha+16zEvLP3
But but but then ah …… you will have many headless chicken running around leh! Hehe
To TMTS and HW3 Management:
We don’t need so many postmen, such as RL, SLS & DH, just know how to pass messages, pleasing upwards and delegating downwards…
management will protect themselves first before the workers, how will PIP/NSI affect them?
take care of yourself then others then the business, it should make sense now
Does this PIP NSI apply to management roles, any news on managers get PIP? cannot be all so good else we won’t be high cost to serve the customers? Who contributed to high cost ? The worker bees ? Now many functions reduced head count but didn’t see consolidation of management, double standards?
@5cgte+16zEvLP3
Wah! To be an EM DH and a millionaire by 37 and earning $500K pa.
I wan I wan :)
@5duez+16zEvLP3
Errrr ….. because Shopee is Ah Beng kia eh seng lee. The lines of Mark Lee and Phua Chu Kang fronting ads.
Eeeeeuuuu!!!!!
Whatever it is, or however it is, I (and I am sure there are many more after me), who would give anything to earn $500K pa for doing nothing but ask questions and delegate - like being an EM executive!!
Yu dun want, but I want hor !!
Easy money. Why not??
I think the person meant how to get $500k without working? Only in EM you can do that.
@5bbvh+16zEvLP3
You think the outside world can’t pay $500k per annum as basic pay? That’s bec you are a frog in the well. Having said , pple who draw such salary scale outside EM are really doing productive work and effective work that bring in the $$ for the company. Unlike EM. In EM , these pple just do 2 things :
1) upward management by echoing , toe party line … they don’t add value or ideas on how to improve the business but rather ask all their subordinates how to improve business. Then they spend time on PowerPoint to spin nice story
2) delegate . Always delegate down using the “pretext “ of empowerment so much so that empowerment is a dirty and abused word .
Have we ever asked ourselves what is a day routine of an Exec drawing a base pay of $500k? The answer is nothing …. Except one a while golfing with the boss , upward managing . They just spend time playing internal politics , upstaging one another … have they ever come out will any brilliant idea to how to win customers ? It’s an obvious No.
I can’t understand why some of Us have a cheek to mock at Shopee ? It is expanding , EM is shrinking . Shopee is hiring , we are retrenching . It is sun raising we are sun setting . It is precisely this kind of attitude , the lack of humility to acknowledge that we have a problem internally that we are in this pathetic state . Wake up folks !
@5brjk+16zEvLP3
To be a DH and a (cash, not asset-based) millionaire before 37 years old, is sure an impossible challenge to most of us - especially in current times.
Envy ….. envy!
May we know who he/she is? Hint?
In the past, all of us know we can look forward to a stable career with EM, and slowly grow our technical expertise. I still felt married to EM despite the average ranking. Many of us know we are not the top quintile and will never be a manager. But before 2020, this was not a bad place to grow a long-term career, regardless. Because -
Slowly but surely, we knew we would build expertise and become a subject matter expert in our respective areas, be it infrastructure, risk management, or applications.
We forged real friendships and trust with many colleagues in our offices and around the world, some of whom we had never met and who were of a different skin color, culture or opposite time zones, or a lot older or younger than us.
We looked forward to slowly building up a good sum of retirement money. Yes we always knew EM didn't pay like the tech companies, but it paid enough especially if we project the stability out to retirement at 60, and we believed we traded money with work life balance.
We had stability that allowed us to take care of our family. We all took pride in learning opportunities, in our safety controls that allow us to act with integrity.
I wrote in the past tense because that's past.
We trusted in the stability, although there were opportunity costs but we decided it was worth it. Quickly, all that changed in 2020, with the sudden 8-10% NSI and PIP, the layoffs in Australia, Europe, Canada and Singapore, and so much rumors about HW3 and further job cuts. Before 2020, none of us thought we were always one rank cycle away from being out of job. Today, this is true for the vast majority of us, except maybe the hi-pos and Outstanding with Distinction people.
When management talked about "we know we have lost the trust of the people", there is always a implicit BUT in their speech. They always sounded like they know have lost the trust, BUT they are also one pay increment, or one 401k restoration, or one LinkedIn Stephen Covey's Trust training, away from restoring all the trust. They always sounded like we are kids throwing tantrum but would be pacified with candies.
But I want to tell management that the trust lost is so, so fundamental, and the worker bees all know that.
The crux of the issue is not the pay freeze because the company was in crisis. We are NOT selfish people who insisted on increments in bad times; I remembered when the COVID pandemic and NSI announcement first broke out, many people were asking in the forums, why wasn't the company considering cutting our pay and saving jobs? Those conversations in times of crisis made me so proud of being a part of EM and EMIT. We were asking for pay cuts to save other people's jobs, that's who we were!
As long as there is a mandatory 8-10% NSI - PIP - PIL, the management cannot, SIMPLY CANNOT, tout a long term career or growth opportunities. Because these are fundamentally opposite and contradictory.
Because:
We can no longer slowly but surely build expertise and become a subject matter expert in our respective areas. Every cycle is a hustle cycle. Every cycle we need to be highly visible, show some projects, show some step-ups. The technical folks, the young developers, they cannot think, I'll take 3-5 years to grow my technical expertise, take part in projects, learn from the tech leads. Because they will fear that by year 2, they could already be ranked NSI if they were not visible. But if everyone only focus on high visibility work, we would all only ever become generalists like our own managers. How do we build technical depth if the system doesn't allow us to focus on quietly building our T-shape expertise? Young people are not stupid. They know if they only have a few years to build their technical expertise before the younger ones catch up
We find it harder to be real friends and build trust with many colleagues, especially in other places in the world. Everyone is a competitor, especially people from lower cost countries. What is at stake is no longer only a ranking number, which many of us could care less about. What is at stake is our job that we can easily lose, and it impacts our family as well.
We now know that the longer we stay, the more disadvantaged we'd be. Firstly, the longer we stay, the higher the possibility of being placed in NSI bucket. It is only logical statistically - the older we get and the higher our CL, the more competitive it is in the rank pool, especially if we are ranked as individual contributors. Also, many of us beyond our 40s know there have been ups and downs in our careers, our family and personal lives. Most of us had encountered personal issues that affect our performance at our work, but this company used to offer the stability that allowed us the leeway to bounce back. Now, well, that is gone. We are one health or family crisis away from losing our job.
There is no longer work life balance for many of us. I found myself unable to care much about my personal life anymore. I had to onboard and hand-hold 2.5 new people in their work since late last year while the layoffs and high attrition are taking place, while doing my own job. EMIT management said they have already stopped doing some work. But is anyone brave enough to claim these as achievements in next year's PDS form... what they stopped doing? Would these brave souls be ranked well?
Keeping the lights on has been so draining the past 6 months. I wonder whether the management knows this. My biggest achievement this year has been that I onboarded 2 brand new people, when people with 20+ years of experiences were suddenly laid off. I've also worked 50+ hours every week for couple of months to help cover the work of these brand new people and myself. Might I put this on my PDS to save me from being ranked NSI? Oh but keeping the lights on is not good enough.. we need visibility... so let's hustle some more. Then more the year after next? And some more... just to try to keep a job that no longer gives me any stability.
Most of us, if we are honest, don't feel married to EMIT anymore. If we were to imagine how we would one day leave this company, few of us would think we'd retire in 20-30 years' time.
Most of us likely realise we'd either get PIP'd or impacted by a HW3 type of program, or forced layoff when we are in our late 40s or early 50s, which is the worst time in life to be out of a job. We saw that happen to many of our colleagues recently. When we read about the Cold War or the Great Depression, we learn that a few years of hardship can change the mindset of entire generations of people who lived through those times. I muse that in EM, one year of bad HR policy has changed so much for us.