Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

Dealing with span of control is something that has been needed for quite a while. If OPs manager hasn't said anything yet, they're either not telling what they know or don't understand what's coming down the line.

Some of this has been said already (Saul even outlined it recently). The goal IIRC is something on the order of 7 directs or more (and heck it may go up to 10). And the plan is to delayer as well. If you have a bunch of managers with a couple people, you don't really need all those managers. They should be managing, not being worker bees and a competent manager should be able to handle 7 or more employees. Once you address span of control, you can also delayer since they aren't necessary either. And ultimately decisions should be faster since it won't have to go thru so many layers to get anything done.

Oh, I should mention that there's also a rule of thumb for how many layers a well run organization should have.

@1oif Later in the year for my business is a target of giving notice to impacted team members in October.

Me and my team are so far down the food chain that any changes that do occur will happen at levels so far above us that the net impact will be zero by the time it all filters down to us. Not worried at all.

At the end of the day, decisions made by the "leadership" don't mean a thing regarding how the business actually operates.

Does anyone know when spans and layers will hit risk and compliance? Roemer acknowledged it is going to happen, but didn’t tell us when. My management team claims to have no knowledge of what is coming.

Absolutely NOT Charlie’s invention. This nonsense was originally concocted by McKinsey in the mid 2000s (Chicago office) and then made its way to technology sector and then to the financial sector. I was a junior tech person in those days so I know how and where it started . This 7 X 7 model is now implemented in JP, and Morgan Stanley. Goldman did not suffer from the problem due to their flat structure. Citi and BOA did not bite this bullet saying their model is different . Wells , as usual, easily and foolishly , fell for this nonsensical way to succeed. Now we are trying to balance all of these management buzzwords: Agile, Spans and Layers, Location strategy, flex seating, reorganization and layoffs. It is a bad time to be having so many balls up in the air.

Ah yes, another Scharf original. He did this at BNYM too.
Acquire BNYM once the asset cap is lifted by Elizabeth Warren.

I am 6 down, not a clue and nothing has been shared with me as far as potential changes. My boss doesn’t know either or has one heck of a poker face. Think a lot of this really depends on your business line as mine is client facing. We have a lot of project and support/implementation type people that will likely be the first to go since project budgets have been slashed to basically zero.

I am a manager so far down the chain I don't want to count but I have a team of 10 that work for me. The interesting thing for me is there are three levels of managers above me that each only have 2-3 direct reports. The question becomes to they dump me and give my team to one of them? Burning question of the hour

What @1moy said. In Technology it's been common knowledge for everyone for a while, but of course we don't have any details yet about how it may play out in practice.

@1jcl you said later in the year before you move on anything.......when is that?

I'm aware of one instance of a 5 down from Charlie without the right number of directs being given a Sophie's Choice of which manager under them to displace to rectify it. C-appy stuff.

@1upi Saul has a head start on this compared to the other groups. The other LOBs really aren't communicating deep down the chain on this.

The fact that some people are completely in the dark about this just further demonstrates how much of a mess this bank is in. I’m glad my management team seems to have its act together and already completed the work so I don’t have to spend the rest of the year wondering what will happen in addition to the uncertainty around layoffs.

I’m 3 down from Charlie. In my LOB the decisions were made at my level and have not been communicated further down yet (we’re not moving on anything until later in the year). I expect they were made by 3 and 4-downs in most areas.

What I got out of the last "Ask Saul Anything" meeting was that Managers who do not have enough direct reports will be realigned to work under other Managers, but ONLY if they have the technical skills to become a "worker bee". Saul stated that if the Manager was formerly a Software Engineer then they could go back to that contributing technical role as an individual contributor. However if the Manager was not technical, did not have enough direct reports, and could not become a technical individual contributor, they should update their resume and plan to leave Wells Fargo. That was my take on the meeting.

I’m level 5 down from the CEO. SVP level. I’m telling you neither I or my peers have a clue what is being decided. I fully expect this to be a surprise announcement where you basically have no chance for input and little time to process. That is how it was done at another bank I worked in the past that starts with JP.

I’m a manager 5 down from Chuck. I have no F-ing clue what’s going and neither does my boss.

Basically Wells is copying the JPM playbook.

I’m a manager 6 layers down from Charlie and I assure you I have no knowledge of what spans and layers looks like, who will be displaced or what our job titles will be. We’ve been told our roles will change dramatically, though. I do think my manager knows more than what he’s telling most of us.

We haven’t been reorganized but our leaders have acknowledged its coming for months.

I agree with prior poster - much appreciation for candor on this thread. What would we do without info from each other?

In technology this has been communicated by Saul on down for months upon months. I have a hard time believing your management knows nothing. They might not be privy to details, but they know it’s coming.

Thanks for your honesty

In my org, our managers knew about the spans and layers work and told us about it. We heard it from the senior managers who are about 4 down from CEO, as well as our direct managers.

We have already been reorganized. My manager did not get a say in the changes until the last minute, so really had no input. The decisions were made by the 4 down level. We had very few situations with managers having less than 7 direct reports, most had 10+, but they made some other changes that really caused some big shifts, and a lot people wound up with a new manager. We’re under the COO org.

The choices for your managers 1. they are on the chopping block, 2. they are lying, or 3. Their managers don’t communicate. None is really good, I suppose it’s possible they are on a delay but they should still know.