Thread regarding Union Pacific Corp. layoffs

Thanks Muskification. I'm really going to take your advice and just accept what's been prescribed to me. F--- outa here you piece of sh-- . This is America m------f----! I make my own destiny . And I'm impressed you can change a tire, good job.

I agree. The guy on here seemed pretty knowledgeable but then he quoted that jordon Peterson dude. But when asked about it, he said he was just doing it to engage the MAGA bunch. So I was just saying I was glad to hear that. It was confusing. A lot of threads here.

Jordan Peterson

Aaand you lost me.

For those not in the know, he is the new pseudointellectual who makes young nerdy white guys feel super smart and special.

F--- outta here.

Mustfication: heartened to hear your word on Jordan Peterson. In your next writings it would do me good if you would change your “fat girl” analysis to something else like maybe just a reference to non gender specific bloat. :)

Appreciate some of the great replies here. Also amused at the few "bitter beer face" folks who only make absurd claims when realizing their naive wishes for saviors like a political party fails them.

Incidentally, I just changed the front right tire on my Case 65C last weekend (to the troll who imagines anyone who can make a reasoned post must not work with their hands). Always done all of my shop maintenance my whole life - tractors, trucks, and cars when I can get under them.

I'd really invite the person who made that "bet Muskification can't change a tire" comment to stop and introspect: Just why do you keep getting life wrong? You're truly bad at figuring things out. I know the people I used to work for would laugh and hope you were in the layoffs since they loved to believe the people that got gutted in their actions were only the stupid, useless ones. That's a harsh view - one that person presumably also shares when someone says something that challenges their fairy tale view of the world (e.g. Trump or Bernie's gonna save me!)

Also, Jordan Peterson's a fraud. I enjoy referencing him since so many of the MAGA true believers worship him too. That said, the grain of truth in Peterson's logic is that we do have to take care of cleaning up our own rooms since the equity class will keep on razing our formerly stable society. That's the point I tried to make. Appreciate the thoughtful comments from several other critically aware folks here.

Muskification has some really good insights here, unfortunately, he's posting them on the wrong forum. Major case of pearls before swine here.

The bulk of the posters on a layoff site are going to be people that are most worried about getting laid off, and, at a company like UP, means that a lot of them are going to be, uh, otnay ootay ightbray. They're the kind of people that hope that Trump finally does something about all those immigrants and liberals so they can get promoted to Assistant Manager and get that $1.50/hr raise they've always wanted.

Mustification are you not concerned at all that Jordon Peterson has not disassociated himself with the alt-right and comes off as a gender patriotic? I would take his voodoo with a grain of salt. He has some good ideas but I think he has an agenda that overall is divisional.

Yes. People like you change spare tires for him. Who’s the dumb one now?

I bet a guy like muskification couldn't even change a spare tire. People like him are pretty much useless . He's pretty good at writing a bunch of bs though.

I agree with pretty much everything Muskification is saying about what is happening with the economy, etc. and he/she is right about the necessity of learning to live with less... I also think that at some point average American citizens will begin to fight back ... If we are not destroyed first by a nuclear event or war or the collapse of environment. Even if we are faced with those kinds of events unless the human race ceases to exist...we could end up reorganizing. It may not be for 10 or 15 years but something will shake us up enough that the 90% will try to take back their power. You can say you don’t believe in any type of government but all peoples and societies have organized themselves with some form of government. Mustfication is being realistic no doubt but you have also maybe kind of have taken the attitude that nothing can change what is going to happen. I think that in time it is possible that the 90% could change the course. But I guess it is also possible that we never will and in that case we will all find ourselves living our lives in a post modern society. Which basically means shortened & difficult lives because of lack of affordable housing, lack of education, lack of infrastructure, malnourishment, disease, imprisonment, lack of clean water and air. That sort of thing. Because we continue to fight with each other over our little differences... we can’t see the “forest for the trees.”

And Boom, the same thing happened before the UP/SP merger. CSX/UP only logical merger, east coast west coast. The KKR id--t knows nothing about Railroading!

UPCSX or CSXUP - I’m guessing UPCSX, with stock symbol UPX.

As Anand Giridharadas notes in his book “Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World”, the incomes of the top 1% of Americans have tripled, with no significant rise in income, adjusted for inflation, for 117 million Americans. 10% of the global elite control 90% of the world’s wealth.

We’ve been an incredibly wealthy and powerful country for well over a century and we’ve peaked. The ride down to second rate could get ugly, and the elite won’t provide quarter; nor will they take prisoners during the last grab.

Just leaving this here....

https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/CSX-merger-talent-Union-Pacific-Norfolk-Southern/543363/

Also, per the id--t who claimed I copied/pasted anything, it's a little early to be drinking heavily, don't you think? Just what was copied/pasted? (Nothing. Thanks for the compliment on my writing, however).

IF my writing sounds fancy or something, it's because I've written more than my share of financial analyst reports, conducted gazillions of assessments, and worked for the equity managers.

You, on the other hand, sound exactly like the "true believer" middle management s---er my former employers used to prey upon. Keep believing, cheerleader! Keep telling your fellow soldiers to carry on and work harder. Elon Musk just told his army that he expects no less than 80-100 hour work weeks in his death march project firms. Work harder and the boss might not send you to the unemployment gallows.

Just why would you want to be treated that way? Just why do you treat your fellow coworkers like they're fools? Unless you're a HR hack paid to troll these boards, you're giving terrible advice.

"Union Pacific needs to change" - that's a generic observation with little relevance to the discussion of what kind of change is being executed. The point many are making is that the change being implemented guts the firm for the profit of Lance and his equity class benefactors.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with you that this is inevitable. It's the stage of our post-mature economy. It's one of the few places the equity class can make the profits they desire with manageable risk. I do disagree with your guidance that people just get along, work harder, and make UP better. Do you see Lance's UP vision rewarding merit with a long-term commitment to those employees?

UP is being gutted, just as Sears, ToysRUs, etc. all were. Do you think Lance and his benefactors will stop any time soon? What happens as the unintended side effects kick in, causing even greater volatility and lack of control of the company? What will be cut to sustain the surplus extraction requirements then? You've got a chair with one leg left and it's starting to wobble.

Per my reference to $400 incidentally that per suggested long-term horizon expectations of a "lean and mean" UP, not ConAgra. Also, I don't intend to be argumentative or critical, but am just surprised that you believe in Lance's vision. Perhaps you're in a position of privilege in the organization that justifies that belief?

To the id--t Miskification who cut and pasted the information they posted, ConAgra stock is trading at just over $32.00 not $400. KKR is no better with some of the worst 5 year performance on wall street in a booming economy. Five years ago KKR trading at around $28 today it is barely holding on at $22. The model of all companies is Berkshire Hathaway, if you look at BNSF they have quietly cut employees at the HQ to 1800 less than half of what Union Pacific has. BNSF has 31,000 employees and hauls more ton miles of freight than UP and produces higher net and gross revenue. BNSF has quietly transformed into a PSR Railroad while UP recently in the last 6 months hired 1500 people and took every locomotive out of storage and created a giant mess.

Union Pacific needs to change, I have worked there for 18 years. Promotions are all based on who your dad was, who your friends are, and how much you can drink on business trips. It has been rife with poor decisions made by people who cannot run a lawn care business. It’s no surprise that the board finally said enough, the current leadership will be gone in a short time and those who add value, and are smart will have a place. I have many friends who lost their jobs, all where nice people, some where the sons of past VP’s and where legacy hires. If I ask myself honestly; it s---s but I would not hire a single one of them.

My advice to anyone, the plane is already made there is nothing we can do to change it. Do you job, work safely for yourself and others, do what is asked even if it is different from what we have all done in the past.

Some positive thoughts/recommendations:

If you realize this is our new reality, you can make some decisions now that will position you and your family to survive and possibly even do better than most. Stop betting on silly deceptions from political parties and candidates. That's one big circus there to keep the cattle calm before the slaughter. Bernie's never gonna be allowed to do jack. Hillary loves gutting fish like the middle class. Trump's a failboy equity class member and desires to please them (not to mention is trying to avoid some angry equity class folks sending Mueller, etc. after him for whatever that's worth).

Instead, some suggestions:

1. Accept the reality that you're individual income might not ever exceed $40K. If you're making $60K+, cut back now and learn to live on $40K. Bank the difference. That means household income buys homes, cars, lifestyle on that basis.

2. Realize social security and pensions will be gone. Sears employees recently woke up to this reality, discovering Evil Eddie (their private equity robber baron "CEO") looted their pension. The good news is that the equity class depends on the rise of the stock market too, so a careful 401K might be there for you as long as they don't collapse the U.S. economy.

3. Work on leaving the corporations like UP. Make a plan to save them the headache of getting rid of you and get rid of yourself before they do. Get moving on that shift to a smaller organization or make a serious investment in yourself. I work with lots of independent small businesses started by people who left the corporate environment. The equity class still needs people to mow their lawns, provide their security, manage their investments, fix their plumbing, etc. Note: if more people moved on based on their terms, not the equity class's layoffs, it'd leave them with lesser talent to run their companies as they loot and downsize them. That was helpful motivation for me; looking at the clowns they have trying to make First Data's financials look pretty cheers me up daily (the market discovered this last quarter just how postured things were in the second quarter... prepare for more reality setting in).

I've really appreciated listening to so many insightful people here who know that the equity managers dreams for a drastically smaller UP are bogus. They know no app and smartphone can manage the complexity and chaos of many of the older systems that still have to be operated.

The single greatest reality is that UP's equity managers will derail this company in time. KKR did that to First Data, a company that needed 100% of its free cashflow to replace the decades-old infrastructure it was running on (hint: if you haven't re-invested in that mainframe for 25 years well past depreciation, running that old COBOL code, taking on $32+ billion in debt for an LBO isn't going to make that fragile old infrastructure go away). Eddie Lampert did that to Sears, pocketing billions as he drained its blood and killed it. KKR did that to ToysRUs (no, Amazon didn't kill them. Billions in debt and "management fees" to KKR wasted instead of updating stores and building a stronger online presence killed them).

We're living during the Great Gutting of American company exceptionalism. Anything large making good money is being driven in for the slaughter. Nothing's there to stop the equity managers from their kill. For the rest of us, the best we can do is take the little professional and financial equity we have and immediately begin investing in ourselves to make that move on our terms, if we're able to beat the layoff noose. Nobody else is going to help you. No Bernie, Hillary, or MAGA promise.

Per the Anonymous saying my "theory" is sh--:

1. It's not a theory; it's our economic reality.

2. It's not my theory.

3. It doesn't matter at all what you think about that reality. You're welcome to suffer if you don't adapt to what's being prescribed for you.

I was a financial analyst that worked for them and am intimately familiar with their model and the First Data project. I left a few years ago as I had seen what I needed to about their view of the world and wanted to have nothing to do with it. I work for rural community projects now in the ag sector.

I wanted to share some insight to UP employees who are going to suffer a whole lot of pain if they continue to believe fantasies. There's no going back to the family company/union/stability of years past. There's no MAGA or Bernie unicorns that are going to do anything for you. You're being gutted like a fish. I think you probably notice that, but you're lashing out at the wrong people. Ultimately, as Jordan Peterson says, you need to work on you. You're the problem. The world's changed and either you find a place it will permit you to add value in or it's going to s---.

What do you find factually inaccurate with this analysis? Set aside the emotions. Set aside the political party balloon and circus side show. Grow up, as Peterson says, and look at the messy room we all have. I'll share some positive thoughts in a follow up to this. It's not all hopeless, but without question, we're all going to get to live a different world than what we might have thought was being offered. The equity class realized the long U.S. economic run is over and it's time to cash out (leaving taxpayers with over $20 trillion in IOUs they have to foreign lenders, along with over $150 trillion in unfunded mandates like IOUs to pay retirement to law enforcement, civil workers, teachers, fire fighters, etc.). The equity class just lowered its corporate and billionaire tax from 35% to 21% - did you notice that too? They're not going to pay the IOUs with your name on them. You are.

No. Muskification is right. If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve read all year, you’re obviously not paying attention to the world around you. Ever heard of the Bilderberg Conference? As George Carlin once said, “Its a club and you ain’t in it and they don’t give a f*** about you!”

You and the kkr are full of sh--! This is the dumbest thing I've read all year . Your theory will never happen, and you can take that to the bank. F---ers like you have no moral compass or integrity. Equity class, get the f--- outa here.

As someone who worked for KKR executives on behalf of First Data in Omaha, I can share some insight into what the equity managers are thinking when they look at Union Pacific. These individuals are setting the tone because they control the majority of asset management; they're your hedge funds, private equity, portfolio managers, bond funds, global bankers, etc. They determine what Union Pacific's strategic set will be because senior leadership must please and delight them in order to 1) increase their personal wealth accumulation, 2) sustain their leadership positions, and 3) avoid unpleasant external events like corporate raiders, hostile boards, shareholder litigation, etc.

Equity managers see the rail sector as a tremendous gem in the rough. They'll joke about finding a supermodel underneath 200 extra pounds of fat: get her in the gym, on a treadmill, and cut off all the donuts and cake, and she'll be a beautiful girl when you're done with her.

Rail is particularly interesting given how much fat is on the girl, per the metaphor. Many of the opportunities for radical transformation and extraction of the surplus (via freeing up money wasted on older, ineffective ways) are ready. Some priority opportunities:

• Destroy old "family/longevity" employment practices: Rail companies have antiquated labor practices where it's still possible to enter at the bottom, work up, and spend a life there. This must be gutted. Millions being wasted doing much in-house; hotel hospitality knows the value of using contractors to clean rooms (esp. when cleaning firms can skirt immigration laws). Why can't UP benefit from contracting out core operations facilities in the field? Uberify the low-skill contractor work (e.g. safety audits can be performed by $9/hour employees of another firm with a tablet and an app). Offshore operations and IT completely. Outsource marketing and finance - nobody needs to manage HR and payroll in-house either. There's Operations-as-a-Service firms with nifty apps for that. Bonus to destroying old family notions is that you put the remaining base of employees in a perpetual state of precarity, ensuring their fear will keep them working 60-80 hours/week, never asking for modest raises. Unions are destroyed.

• Automation: Regardless of what workers think, the equity managers see Tesla and automated driving as a stable technology. Trains don't need people running them. "It's even safer that way - nobody gets killed (on the train) if there's a crash!" If some kids or drivers are in the way of the train, railroads are already positioned to shift the bulk of that liability. Think about it: if there's not even an engineer to fail at noticing the stalled car on the crossing, there's no human to sue. Further pressure on lobbyists can help shift liability even further off of the railroad.

Equity managers likely see a firm that can lose 60% or more of its headcount within 5 years and get down to less than a quarter the headcount size in 10. The remaining headcount will be union free and cost controlled, save for an appropriate management team with whatever compensation is necessary to move it to this size. Sell the Omaha headquarters building, integrate it into the equity community in New York, and let operations management function in cheaper digs. Aggressive automation allows operations to be more location independent, allowing bidding wars between communities for tax credits (look at ConAgra as an example here).

The payoff? A stock well over $400/share. It's not greed, as referenced above. It's how financial markets function today. It's where the money's at and if you're in the equity class, this is what you do to earn your living (and sustain a nice life). GM's no different nor are any other manufacturing, transporatation and industrial U.S. firms.

One final note: this isn't an issue of Democrats vs Republicans. Both parties work for the equity manager class. They don't work for you all. In fact, they laugh about the fools in the middle class that think one or other parties care about you per whatever campaign message they're peddling. They know who they work for. It doesn't matter who's in the White House because they work for the equity owners. Nothing you do is going to change that. You're not going to get your Bernie/Socialism pipe dream nor your MAGA nonsense. In spite of whatever lies the middle class tells itself, Trump is of the equity manager class; he's a rather inept member and laughed at by most as an incompetent joke, which only ensures Trump wants to prove them wrong by pleasing them. There's nothing wrong about Trump or Hillary other than they're just not who any of the middle class pretend them to be.

It's a different world for American workers. The middle class dream peaked in the late 70s; remember that Reagan was the first MAGA president, elected in a massive surge when Carter failed to stand up to the massive new war led by high finance. Americans had their half-century of privilege and now the equity class is working on cashing that all in for themselves. Do the best you can to stay educated and be prepared to accept far less. The lower class already knows what you're going to get to accept: $30K-$40K/year max. 401K only if you contribute into it (with at most 2% match ala the KKR model, though that'll be into the company stock which may be an issue if you work for the half of their properties that go bankrupt ala ToysRUs, Sears, etc.). Europeans are already getting comfortable with this new normal and you will to.

Don't mean to be a pessimist here but to let you know the practical reality that's been engineered for you by the equity class. Don't bother shouting about political parties or economic systems. It's been decided by those who get to make those decisions. The most you can do is determine what path you can take within what is offered.

Is @WmdBln5-3mce wearing a mask like some teenage "antifa" member while typing that? Has this person ever worked? Dumb comment and not helpful at all when people are looking for useful info.

The entire American, and actually probably the global capitalist economy is on the verge of collapse because the wealth and power is concentrated at the top 1% or whatever it is now. All corporate employees are basically working for a monarchy or a feudal state. The CEO is the King. The board of directors and the executive departments are the court and we are the serfs. We are back to exactly what caused the French and British revolutions. We can and are being kicked to the streets. It’s happening all over. If you work at UP now it’s real for you and you are seeing at the micro level what is happening at the macro level. Now it’s real. Now you care. Now you understand. It’s a more modern and sophisticated game but it’s the same as what happened 300 years ago. If you played Monopoly as a child you know that Capitalism always comes to this and always fails. The corruption in the government and at corporations...really everywhere and the lack of any real public policies since that 70’s that have helped the working class, including weakened unions and corruption in the unions are all just speeding up what will come. There could be some hope or maybe at least some time if we could vote out all most everyone in the White House but I’m not confident because there is so much divide and ignorance. Most civil wars actually start when citizens get radicalized and perform acts of domestic terrorism. We are already seeing that start here with the school shootings and the random shootings at churches and night clubs. It starts at the fringes and it grows because people have nothing to hope for and the fringe gets bigger. You should vote. But it’s probably already too late

Laying off employees is like printing money for the company. Short term savings (quarter to quarter) from reducing expenses and it is so much easier to cut people than improve customer service and taking on new business. Sure there will be long term consequences but the current crop are just short term thinkers. Certainly the UP set some all-time records in the 3rd quarter, but how can we hurry up and do better next quarter...and the layoffs continue.

There’s always room for more profits. Investors don’t go “man, I’m happy with the money they’re making, don’t try any harder to get more.” They will always ask for more, if they can get that by removing overhead and restructuring processes, then so be it. It’s a publicly traded/owned company, were paid to do the job that's being asked of us, and many of us will be told to stop doing that and leave. Just because you don't think you're process is broken, doesn't mean there's not a different or even better way to do so. Other railroads are showing that they can do things differently and make more money, so UP has to adapt or there will be a hostile take over and it would be way worse than it currently is. Look out for yourself the best you can, and prep for the worst case scenario, but hope your safe.

It’s all about operating ratio. Other railroads instituted precision scheduled railroading at the detriment of their culture, employees and customers. Operating ratios declined and pleased investors which put pressure on UP to follow suit.

Lance and his team are at a critical point. They either perform or there will more than likely be new leadership. Everyone is hoping that Lance will be gone but the alternative may not be pleasant either.

In summary, it’s all about greed.

Union Pacific doesn’t want what happened to the CSX to happen to them. If the stock isn’t performing then it’s possible the CEO is fired and a new one brought in that will do what they want. UP understands this and is attempting to do what they want but do it in a way that UP thinks is best. When Hunter Harrison became CSX CEO he changed everything for them and laid off thousands of jobs. This is the same reason GM is laying off thousands and closing plants. It’s all about the all mighty dollar.

Go back and look at stock price fluctuations on earnings release days for the last 4-5 quarters. Almost every release we break earnings records and meet or come very close to Wall Street expectations but our stock price falls or stagnates. Our performance is not wowing the market, despite record performance and ever-improving metrics.