Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

@fshe, I’m sure you know all too well what “Free” means. Don’t play the jerk. “Free” does indeed have a cost, but in the case of healthcare, I understood the point the poster was making. Don’t ask me to spell it out.

By all means, a service which requires the lifetime dedication, sacrifice and hard work of professionals who possess above average skills and intelligence should be "Free" to some and at minimal cost to others simply because a certain political ideology deems it so! We all should get free stuff, paid for by others, because we SAY SO!

It's important, so it should be free and others should pay for us to get it!

What gibberish is that -evwl?

@elvs, Yes certainly. And we welcome you to do that in your profession. When that comes to fruition, we in the medical fields will be happy to follow suit.

There’s lots of valid points of view being discussed here. If you put on your “cynical hat”, you’d likely be touching on the root problems to the high cost dilemma, the chief one being “money and greed”. Access to affordable healthcare is essential to everyone. This is not an area to be exploited for financial windfalls. Vocation before commercial gain should be the motto.

-emnq--->With a word to the wise from the ostrich.

Does anyone give a ratsa$$ about this thread. If you lead a healthy lifestyle you won’t need this.

"Why are we restricted to purchase insurance from companies licensed to do business in the State"...that was a Republican demand!...to keep the federal government out of direct control. The worse thing we can do is it to keep changing the rules on the margins every year on the insurers, which then causes them to raise rates just to overcome their perceived risk uncertainty. Increasing competition between insurance companies will have little impact....the improvements need to be in medical practice! We need to standardize the paperwork so doctors do not need to employ more people to process claims than to advise patients, develop incentives for doctors to improve their information technology (medical records archival and computer-assisted diagnostics) and practice workflows (maybe more nurse practitioners under direct doctor supervision) that will lower costs while maintaining adequate care, detailed published price and outcome records for all providers, and rewards for treatment success (not just patient numbers through the door). Changing to a single payer system like many other nations have may or maybe help control costs in our system..."central planning" government is generally not known to be better than free market forces at finding solutions....and the USA system is already too solidly embedded into "each provider is an isolated entrepreneur model"....it would be a very painful and expensive process to move away from that and I am not convinced our current government has either the wisdom or sticktoitness to realistically make that happen. That said, our current system does not focus the free market forces into solving the right problem...better health outcomes at a lower price! Obama-care made insurance pools...it did not improve medical practice at all....so why would anyone expect costs to be become lower! As far as I can tell the Rubublicans have no ideas except to throw grandma....the boogyman "other"...under the bus. We will see no improvements until the partition bickering can be put aside and there is a focus on real solutions. Unforntuanly I think the system will have to collapse under its own stupidity before that happens, but with the aging of the baby boomers...that might not be so far off!.

-ewpx: Some tort reform is certainly needed, particularly for cases of simple error (rather than gross negligence). The million dollar settlement for the woman who lost her psychic-powers in a CAT scan is one of my favorite examples of why more limits are needed. That said, you overstate the case... malpractice insurance is a very small part of the total costs. Under 3 percent even if you include the estimated costs of "unneeded care" given by doctors in fear of being sued (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#5776a0c2ff5b). Real cost saving can only come from increasing efficiencies (there is huge room for improvement!) or by restricting the care provided (throw grandma under the bus when she gets expensive). We better start focusing on the former so we can avoid the latter...becasue the potential available medical services (and costs), particularly for extraordinary near end of life treatments, are only increasing year after year!

-ewpx is correct. Medical malpractice lawsuits of all kinds, mostly frivolous are a huge burden on costs. This is something that needs urgent control. Another cost burden is lack of competition. Why are we restricted to purchase insurance from companies licensed to do business in the State. Why isn’t healthcare insurance shopping not allowed across State lines? I understand the Commerce Clause and each State’s rights to regulate itself, but healthcare needs to be a National priority exception. The pharmaceutical industry is another burden to healthcare costs. This too needs to come under constant oversight.

American healthcare is dominated by the costs for malpractice insurance driven by a litigious society. If one out of 1000 surgeries didn’t end in a $10 million law suit doctors wouldn’t need such huge insurance policies and could charge reasonable rates. The big money in healthcare goes to ambulance chasing attorneys.

@etlx gets it. Finally someone with some sense posting in here.

@etlx, Anything other than what we have now would be a step in the right direction. Frankly, at this stage, I would welcome Universal Healthcare. Free for every citizen.

$6780 yr ($565/mo.) would be quite reasonable if it is "real" coverage (not super high deductible and unsubsidized by ACA taxpayer funds), then again that is about the average cost for health coverage in Canada, Germany, and most other industrialized nations (most of which have a single payer system). I think folks in the USA are delusional about the quality of their health system...what they get for the huge amount that they pay. It is easily twice as expensive as other industrial nations, and yet we have worse average outcomes... measured by just about any metric you choose. Sure there are some excellent research hospitals, but they are subsidized big time by the $50 billion National Institutes of Health budget and VA funded research programs. A significant amount of the "research" by big pharma also starts as government-funded research, and yet when new drugs come to market the USA consumer pays multiples what the rest of the word pays (congress blocks competitive bidding). The USA system is the best?: 1) Paperwork (billing) consumes 25% of the budget in the USA system, 2) Medical records are a joke (faxed paper between individual Dr. offices...test results are lost, repeated and never tracked over time...you ever see your doctor looking at a graph of long-term test results...never!), 3) Methods are still in the stone age, developed for the country doctor with little more in their toolbox than leeches. I see no indication that my doctors are using computer-assisted diagnostic systems, which should be the norm in this day and age, 4) There can be no free market "efficiencies" from a system where doctors and hospitals refuse to publish their prices! Except for the few in an HMO, care coordination is very poor...particularly if you get really sick...visits to random doctors with different specialties each focused on getting you in and out in under 15 min. 5) Weak focus on preventative medicine ...we spend nearly 50% of our healthcare dollars on folks that will die anyway within the year. You guys b--ch about the price, and blame it all on freeloaders! Give me a break. The system is broken and needs a major overhaul! Everyone needs some level of care, and the best bang for the buck is to focus on long-term preventative care and early intervention ... not end of life heroics. Somehow most other countries figured this out a long time ago...time for the USA to grow up!

Hey -dmth, sit on this 👍 and twirl around.

I couldn't agree more. The Jecklers on this site are the worst! I make me sick to my stomach every time I am Jeckled. I seriously think HR should consider anti-Jeckling training for everyone, starting with MidCon and then GOMer.

dbni, About 99% of the people who post here are trolls, hecklers and jecklers with no life. I would not even respond to their nonsense, you have fallen into their little trap.

Not fake, dwaj? Prove it. You haven’t yet named the insurance company, plan number, your City & State and your age. Do that and I’ll check it out. If you’re correct, I’ll retract calling you a fake. Somehow, I already know you won’t follow through. I can sense a fake before it turns the corner.

No, not fake. That covers me, my spouse and family. Do your own research. Feel free to call it whatever you like, doesn't have any affect on the best priced plan I could find for me.

Just as I figured. The poster known as @cdii is a fake. The $565 premium is either completely made up or this moron is throwing his money away on an expensive High Deductible, High Copay medical insurance plan that covers only him. That amount is ridiculously high. Nobody should consider paying that amount unless you are ill and receiving continuous medical attention. If you’re healthy, it would be advisable to save your money.

yes, as soon as the real dyql chimes in - lol!

Funny! Now will the real @cdii chime in?

@crcf, Appreciate all you want, this is the layoffs forum, not the Farmer's insurance customer service desk. However, just remember -

We know a thing or two because we've SEEN a thing or two!

@cdii, your $565 monthly premium is not too bad, depending on what it covers and what the deductibles and copays are. Is ihe coverage for a single person or for a couple or family? I’d appreciate knowing the insurance company and the Plan name, please. And one last thing, what State and City do you live in? Thanks.

I pay $565 monthly. I don't mind paying for quality health care/insurance. You guys are a bunch of pathetic tight-wads. Your health is the most important thing in your life. Why scimp on it or use the pathetic Obamacare plans? I priced them out and none offered what I want. I can afford whatever policy I want and sleep well. I can also afford to live where I want, drive whatever vehicle I want, travel , vaca, endlessly etc. You worked all those years at CVX with nothing to show for it? What went wrong? You guys should have studied harder in school, I keep telling ya!

cnya, I believe that you are the only one on this site being coy and obtuse as well as obviously uneducated, clueless and quite dense. Your evaluation of our free market economy and choice to label one service as sacred and subject to the whims of predatory government regulation is "morally out of balance". You obviously have no idea what "FREE ENTERPRISE" as you put it entails.

Have a nice day.

What’s the medical premium for early retirement? If you only knew what it was, you wouldn’t be retiring early. Friend, it’s very high and a real rip off. These things are kept hushed up by your HR department. Sad you when you’re out and it’s too late.

Don’t play coy or obtuse, cgth. There is a huge difference. I can choose to not invest or not to buy a certain company’s product or service. That is called Free Enterprise. I DON’T have much of a choice when it comes to medicine and healthcare. Neither do you. That is why certain elements of our capitalistic economy need to be held as sacred, through ethics and morals (best) or by strict regulation and oversight, punishable by heavy fines (second best).

Wow. You don't say! Companies and corporations are in business to make a profit? Earth-shattering. Is this breaking news?

Back to the subject you nimrods!! The government is an accomplice to the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry, which is in the business of making money, NOT fixing your health. That’s why costs are so high. They are it it solely for the money.

@aktj, You and most every American have been hoodwinked all your lives, believing that healthcare premiums by virtue of it being “healthcare” must of course be expensive. This is the mentality we have been taught all along. Our parents, our teachers and our government have all participated in this propagating the farce narrative the modern age began. The healthcare is a mafia, if you haven’t pondered. It’s supported and protected by our federal government. Those people who have discovered this truth, most have been able to sidetrack paying higher than blood-thirsty medical premiums. Don’t blame me and many others I know who have been able to receive healthcare at the real cost it should be. All this BS about subsidies is only a front to keep making the populous continue to believe that good healthcare is expensive. Stay in the dark and remain ignorant if you like. For most, it’s the easier path than defy conventional wisdom. I suggest you read, explore more, use your logic and learn from the honest citizens who care enough to pass along true knowledge, the type your government tries very hard to keep hidden from the public through disinformation, lies and lack of disclosure. Knowledge is power. I’m sure you’ve heard that said before. So don’t chastise, insult and parrot the rhetoric they have trained you to push. It only amuses me to sit back and laugh when I hear or read such dribble.

I agree with the poster who claims that health care costs are way too high. He is 100% spot on. It's because of all the entitlements to the lazy d---beats & illegals who get it free or at next to nothing with subsidies. alyh, why don't you ask one of the millionaires on this site how they get the $50 a month Bronze and Silver plans that you are indirectly paying for with your $1000 or $1200 a month premiums and taxes! After all, those millionaires with the fat pensions from CVX are really destitute and really need your tax dollars as well as those services that the providers need to charge so much to you for because so many get it at a discounted rate! That discounted rate is picked up by others, in case you didn't know. It's not just tax dollars that subsidize. The reflection is in your premiums. And the low declared income groups are not the only ones sponging parasitically on the system so don't give me that bs that it's a small percentage. That's only one of many categories of the failure of the ACA and the entire US health care system. You're also paying for illegals and welfare people. But of course, many of you want to, so don't complain about high premiums - lol!

@ayso, Can you seriously look the common everyday retired couple in the face and convince them a HIGH DEDUCTIBLE medical plan for $1200 a month is fair and reasonable. You’d be hard pressed to even convince the average working couple of that. Take a hike you dunce.

Yes, I totally agree. What is the end game? If you deprive one group of the ability to pay for healthcare (financial hardship in any form) to give to another for healthcare(immediate gratuity) in the NAME of healthcare because you claim that it is the "morally superior" solution since it saves a life, your argument is technically flawed. You stole a life to save a life.

In any event, I love the philosophical rants, but what does any of that have to do with medical premiums for early retirees, the topic of this thread. I looked at my options for a couple and it is about $1200 a month for high deductable. What are you guys getting quotes on?

@acgk, no , you lost completely. I am not the original poster but next time please present a point that you can actually back up with facts, and/or simple logic, which you have neither.

Your argument is that "people are bad and greedy" and he/she argued that it exists on both sides as does generosity and you had no legitimate counter other than your buzz words and talking points, which can be applied to either side as well which he or she pointed out -including examples, your response was essentially; no, "I'm right and he or she's wrong because I'm morally superior because I said so!".I agree with the conclusion by @agyn, you may not be, but you have the attitude of a greedy entitled millennial and that is your only argument and it holds water like a colander.

WADR, sir, take your ball and go home, you lost. And no need to tell us again, everyone's point is weak but yours, we have heard lol!

Wrong, akng. That’s your weak rebuttal? You lost the argument. Next time, pick the right fight.

@akng, your analogy between the perverseness of greedy medical professionals and greedy stock investors in generally is morally out of balance. Please don’t pretend to be coy or obtuse, for I’m sure you understand the point I was making. The business of medicine in this country is using its citizens as a feedstock and commodity to create wealth for those who process the science and skills to cure humankind and ease pain and suffering. I’m not advocating free medicine, but humane and affordable healthcare. There’s enough of us “customers” that require care many times throughout our lives for hospitals, doctors, medical technicians and scientists to make an adequate living without having to cost anywhere to selectively high costs we are seeing today. The medical community has corrupted itself way too much. We need government to strictly control this industry. That’s my opinion.

All very good points. I tend to think that many go into their fields for the love/challenge of it and to help others, as a teacher does, as well as the compensation. Why can't it be both? There's no way for us to accurately determine who does and does not. The "in it only for the money" accusation can be applied to anyone, anytime, anywhere as well as greed to the consumer of said services, when they want it free or close to free, provided by the tax dollars of others and/or at the cost of lessened compensation for hard-working, educated medical professionals . I would challenge all of those who do not want to be party to the so-called "greedy" corporations beholden to the fickle stockholders to promptly surrender their shares of CVX to their favorite charity!

@9fcp, Do you think people go to college and medical school more so for the money they think they'll make in their practice or you more so for the vocation of helping patients? If it’s the former, then “greed” is the problem we have. I tend to think greed is more the reason for the higher healthcare costs we have today. Sure, such things like inefficiencies, our litigious society and billing fraud are contributing to high costs, but those things can be controlled better than greed. Look at all the major medical corporations, pharmaceutical companies and laboratories. All of them are beholding to fickle stockholders before ethics. They continue to find reasons or excuses to raise costsin order to increase their profit margins. You say healthcare is not a right and you are right because it’s not in the constitution. But our health should not be held like a commodity, to be sold to the highest payers. Our health and quality of healthcare cannot be traded or replaced, so I see differently than you. It’s a service (not necessarily a right) that should be affordable to everyone. I’m positive the medical industry can thrive and it’s doctors, technicians and scientists can make a good living if the entire practice of healthcare is delivered with a moral and ethical objective, rather than a business objective. Maybe our government needs to strictly regulate the industry and get the “greed” element out of medicine.

Sounds reasonably true -8ihb. Healthcare doesn’t have to be subsidized IMO. That doesn’t remove the root problem, which is greed. Government has the power to mandate caps on costs. The market still remains, but cost limitations are enforced on all medical services and providers. If you are one of the other and don’t want to participate, then another would. I don’t subscribe to the myth that the result would be less quality or effective medicine. That’s a false premise that is pushed by the medical and big pharmaceutical establishment.