I think a lot of people are ignoring a key fact when they go about redundancies. Since that original 5500 were laid off more than that number have been hired.. You could argue these LR activities are just realigning the business. A good thing for Cisco surely?
38 replies (most recent on top)
@8fc1:
You have been kicked out of every BU you have worked for.
You still didnt learn your lesson.
After not finding a job for over One year, you accepted this lower-position job for peanuts.
It is so dissatisfying, that it makes you angry and you think, Indians are the only reason your little secret was Out- and that now everyone is laughing at you being Crazy.
You will be fired from the LOWER position that you occupy now.
Then you can sit by your trailer and rant to the squirrels about how unfair the world is in Firing you.
@8fc1 : cisco was right to fire you, and your record was marked. You wont be hired back, even if you come begging. It is not because you got old, it is because you Hallucinate.
Your rant on Irrelevant topic is proof enough.
The new menial job is so dissatisfying, that you want to come here and spew hate on your imaginary enemies.
Wishing you a speedy mental recovery.
I left Cisco willingly and I am working in a company that values older workers, Americans or otherwise. Our offshoring centers are in Europe, Australia and the Middle East.
If Cisco were to hire brilliant folks around the world, cool. But all the brilliant folks cannot come from a single country, and even from a single region of that country (as I am told)...now could they? Does the truth hurt sweet heart?
Don't be too c---y. In the last 3 companies, I have seen older, fully immigrated, and US citizen people of Indian ancestry being let go. You do realize that even Indians get old some day, and will be subject to the same age discrimination (even IN INDIA)?
All of the companies are started by AMERICAN PEOPLE on the backs of AMERICAN TAXPAYERS. Don't give me the tripe about Indians starting any companies, because they haven't started any meaningful companies that employed thousands of IT people (and no, Wipro and Infosys don't count). In the end, American people will have enough. The brilliant people of India are more than welcome to start indigenous IT companies serving a local market. Even China is in that direction. India? No, they still s--- the blood out of the US. Indian economy is still a pitiful 5-10% of the US and there is no meaningful market there.
@81mu : you got fired from cisco, and have a menial job now. You cant fool anyone with your lack of IQ and incompetencies -that explains your hatred.
You obviously live in your well, and call it the world. There was life before the existence of USA. You cant even agree to the facts. Go back to your hole and play with yourself.
Your pre-school IQ is not welcome in cisco or any of the companies who ARE hiring the brilliant Ones from around the World !!
I have a good job, thanks much. That doesn't mean I should be less of a patriot and should just overlook the suffering of the American middle class.
Again, the same tripe about India's geniuses. Yes, there was ONE brilliant mathematician (in reality, there are several, you just don't know your own countrymen's achievements). The US has had HUNDREDS for your ONE. The whole IT and Silicon Valley has been created in the US starting from the very basic transistors to the CS theory based on Turing machines.
Indians have taken a massive advantage of the IT growth. And they have contributed ZERO. Literally.
India is NOT RICH. Richness of a country comes from the minds of its population. India's best population has already left India and has made the US its home.
Go home sweetheart and keep believing in nonsense fed to you by global elites. Remember though - no system is permanent, and the Indian's advantages are not going to be so. East Europe is already making inroads in software; heck, even Africa is.
racism was invented so that those that were powerful at a particular point in time (middle ages) could "work around" the problem of their religion asking people to be treated fairly.
with racism, anything went with treatment of the untermensch and we see the takeover of 3 continents from their original inhabitants (both the americas and australia) and exploitation of africa and asia - which had too many people to drive into the reservation and had immunity to smallpox.
what we see in parts of this thread is a repetition of that same phenomenon...as in "I have a higher value rigged currency to buy all the stuff my family never needs, but its your fault that my employer is struggling and cannot afford my inflated std of living anymore"
lol...I just read and watch the fun.
What is "Goodle?"
@NEaZ8cZ-7njy : Sweetheart , I pity you because you are filled with arrogance. And the best part is the arrogance is not coming out of your own Achievements. You are basing the achievements on something that is and will be transient.
You are ignorant and proud of it.
But you summarized India's strength, in your rant.
India's civilization is among the oldest, ( unlike USA) and we were so popular that columbus came searching,when USA was accidentally found. That should tell you the importance.
We have mathmaticians like Ramanujam, whose algorithms are still being used by Goodle and FB.
Indian culture is so strong, that we dont need guns to create and grow a low-crime society. We cant say that for USA.
If you think India is a beggar country, then you are measuring everything with $ money- which in itself is a transient commodity... Good, if you want to live life that way. Dont forget, India- EVEN TODAY- is the richest when it comes to Gold, diamond and precious metals per Household in the WORLD ! can you say that for USA ?
What have YOU done as a human being besides spewing hate here ? What will you be remembered for ? And hey , if you have such great quality, why are you not promoted in your job and why havent you landed a decent Job. Why are All US jobs being MOVED to India ??
Think.. Genius !
Yeah, cheaper does not mean ineffective maybe. It just means ZERO INNOVATION in this context.
Well, unfortunately, there are only a few things Americans can do as political elites are wrecking havoc on the country. The world needs an overpaid American middle class (as you call it), because these people have literally carried the world in the 20th century. There also is no replacement, no other player who will carry the world in the absence of America. Indians? Chinese? They steal American technology, steal jobs and are just tribal in nature.
Ask yourself - the American people have openly embraced and created opportunities for people all over the world. Can you say the same thing about Indians or Chinese? LOL, no. Indians can't even get along with their neighbors. Indians hire only Indians. Entire engineering divisions in Cisco are 100% Indians from top to bottom. It's just sad to see it come to this.
And Americans are noticing. You know who got elected as president, right? Do you think only high school graduates voted for him? Think again. Your typical, libertarian, formerly liberal middle aged American IT worker has voted for him in very large numbers. And this trend will continue.
Americans have no reason to support outsourcing, or an open world. The world may be big, but if the US withdraws, the world will fall to pieces. In the end, maybe Americans should just stop caring what happens to the rest of the world.
Seriously? You give me the tripe that India has existed for a billion years, so somehow that's an incredible achievement?
Amoebas have existed since the dawn of life on this planet. Who the f--- cares? And to tell you the truth, India was hardly a unique civilization. China, Mayas/Aztecs, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Persians, Arabians, Egyptians...I mean the world is littered with a long line of civilizations which continue to this day today.
There has never been a country like the USA ever in the history of mankind. Why do you think all Indians are ready to do whatever it takes just for a chance to live in the US? Indians living here hate to go back, they cannot tolerate the thought. It really gives them fits. Their kids hate India to the core. So yeah...I am not really holding my breath for that country. The world won't miss it even if it were to disappear.
You AGREE THAT INDIA BENEFITS from outsourcing? F---ing yeah...the USA elites have decided to feed that monster just to have an ally in that region. Indian economy IS OUTSOURCING, NOTHING ELSE young padawan. If outsourcing stops, India becomes a country of beggars. For your own sake, I hope your current prime minister changes this status quo for the better of everyone. He better act fast. India's infrastructure and standard of living is a complete joke.
India as a farming country? Do you even know how much the US produces? Do you know how much land the US has? The US farming is probably triple to quadruple of India's pitiful farming at 1/10th the people. That's the US richness and efficiency for you. Yeah, Indian farmers are committing suicide because global warming is wrecking an havoc on land there. The bills will come due.
The one thing I do admire India though is that it has an endless supply of people willing to do work without getting in criminal activities. AND that somehow the country has been kept together.
Everyone knows that much more qualified Americans are being pushed out of their jobs no matter what their race, gender or age, in favor of cheaper, ineffective workers.
The bigger problem is even if you excise and replace the entire engineering staff if you have one SVP remaining who demands the same stupidity you'll have the same pile of infinitely broken crap you have today. Unfortunately those indoctrinated in this incompetence don't have the perspective to realize how unqualified they really would be in better development environments which is why the quality metrics have shown you've never had many qualified workers and why you acquire instead of develop.
@NEaZ8cZ-6fqv cheaper does not necessarily mean ineffective. One day the Americans will take a long objective look at themselves and then they might be in for a surprise. It's a big world and it's not all bloated salaries and raving racism.
There are several ppl i know off from LR in 2016 who have still not found jobs 8 months later
They range from a DE with a decent track record to sr director types.
Ironically the only one who immediately found was someone from a indian state that cannot be named but everyone knows...strong tribal network in sjc.
Is the job mkt bad for senior ic in netwking over there?
NEaZ8cZ-nob, you are what is commonly known as an idiot. It is so sad to me that too many unqualified people have been given opportunities based on stereotypes. Everyone knows that much more qualified Americans are being pushed out of their jobs no matter what their race, gender or age, in favor of cheaper, ineffective workers.
University hires are recruited into jobs without roles or responsibilities. Cisco does not care about recruiting millennials, Directors/Managers merely want cheap American bodies to justify their jobs.
The new normal is to higher younger/less experienced people to replace those of us who are no longer considered valuable. We may have worked at Cisco for too long, are over 40, or at a grade level CSCO now wants to eliminate. They also are outsourcing more and more to cheaper countries for IT work. CSCO is so hungry to join the FB/AWS's of the world so they spend a lot of money on 'open' environments and host parties thinking that that's Millenials want. Then the ELT and higher level 'leaders' travel all over the world giving fluff presos about tranformation. That's not a very strong strategic plan.
I was laid off Sept 2016 as well. The real reason, years of experience + age. True facts after 20+ yrs w the company takes good care of clients in Sales and Services, or else, they won't keep me for that long.
I am 39...got laidoff in Aug 2016....my suggestion (very important) - anyone with over 10 yrs with cisco is at high , super high risk....I was 9.5 yrs....looks like 9.5 yrs is a magic number for cisco employees...may be industry wide :)
... US drives innovation. Cisco is an American company. Do you see the connection between the need to be in the US and innovation? ...
tl;dr: Cisco has to be close by to see which companies to acquire because it can't innovate on its own.
@xvn, @ceq : Nice... Cisco and Outsourcing have been a symbiotic relationship since 2000.
If you think India's economy will collapse (?) .. you must realize, India existed before 2000 AD... much before the "innovative USA " came into existence.
I agree that Indian economy has benefitted immensely from outsourcing, but that doesnt mean India has no other form of trade !
India is still a farming country First !! You appear like a Fool comparing a fast moving Rat to a tortoise/Elephant. Everyone has their place in this World. Look to improve your skills,dont try to humiliate others, you will pnly undermine your own cause.
" I was laid of after 15+ years of service is because of my age."
Exactly. In reality if you work for Cisco one should be loyal as your name will eventually come up for LR. Look out for number one.
The toughest part about the USA to India development cycle is the time shift and differences in escalation reactivity. Having Product Management in USA and then development team offshore is exhausting for everyone. If there is an escalation, it's very tough to call an international cell phone of a developer at 3am India time locally. The fallback of getting on the daily scrum call at 4am San Jose time to explain the escalation and develop a test plan isn't realistic; after a few days of consecutive status calls. It's not about different countries or cultures, it's old fashioned logistics. It is difficult to built teamwork and trust across big time zone differences. No idea on answer.
New tools for "People Planning" launch in September. Hold on to your underwear. This is going to be a bumpy, slippery mudslide!!
You really are a piece of work.
If there are other countries, those other countries are welcome to start their own silicon valleys and grow their own economies. And don't give me the rubbish that Bangalore even remotely comes close. Bangalore is a US corporations's ugly stepchild.
India has started ZERO noteworthy companies and made ZERO tech contributions. Overpaid? An overpaid American geek is worth 100 Bangalore engineers/H1Bs who need spoon feeding all their lives.
Even India's own best breed from the IITs has come and settled in the US and has never gone back. Don't give me that the rejects of the India's top colleges are somehow a bargain over an engineer in San Jose. LMAO. What a joke.
So what?!?!
Get outta the US already. Be an Indian company. Try your luck there.
What IT innovation has come out of India exactly? ZERO (yeah, India is the birthplace of ZERO).
US drives innovation. Cisco is an American company. Do you see the connection between the need to be in the US and innovation?
If India is so innovative, why not fix INDIA and stop living on the backs of the US? If the US government decided to put an end to outsourcing, India's economy will collapse like no other economy has ever collapsed in the history of mankind. India's economy purely survives by trying to get whatever outsourcing function (they used to call it BPO, then KPO) they can get from a productive US economy that is 20 times the size of India.
Companies like Cisco deserve to die.
Working in IT or networking is alot like having a bad hangover. The result is always the same, you end up being an antiquated dinosaur, LR'd eventually. Forget career goals; this is literally the matrix, in reality. Yes you might make some good money for some good years; but don't ever forget your turn at crapping out at the IT craps table will occur. Stuff your 401k and savings accounts and prepare for winter. Don't trust anything or anyone. This IT journey is mostly a facade built on sketchy relationships and dependencies. One year you can be riding high with a nice bonus and soul-selling RSUs, and the next year you are shunned from the horde. Don't ever think it won't happen to you, because it happens to us all. Prepare and accept the inevitable; but try to smile and laugh...as things surely could be much, much worse in life. None of it really matters in the end.
It only doesn't make sense if you are an overpaid American based in an expensive location and are incapable of rationalising the fact that there are other countries other than the US of A.
I'm not in the US, and I've worked in 10 countries, including India.
And it may surprise your smug self, but culture matters (that's why we have diversity, remember!!)
And the cringeworthy pr our strategic genius Chairman is now doing further illustrates the point that layoffs do not equal strategy.
Buying companies (Viptela, a failing SD-WAN company, being the latest) and adding those employees to your balance sheet does not equal growth. And if you think that age and wage are not considered for LRs, I'd like that Kool aid you are drinking.
The point is, after 26,000 layoffs since 2009 their "strategy" is still failing.
You could argue these LR activities are just realigning the business.
If the ship has a drunken captain who keeps sinking ships against icebergs the passengers really don't matter.
Let's assume for a minute that it is Cisco's policy to downsize the US and move roles to India and other offshore locations (Poland, Europe etc.). So what? You are making the assumption that countries other than the US are incapable of delivering to the same standard as that of the US. That is patently a load of arrogant rubbish.
What you actually end up with is a global company, operating with more efficiencies and probably with a higher share price reflecting the fact that Cisco is more cost efficient.
It only doesn't make sense if you are an overpaid American based in an expensive location and are incapable of rationalising the fact that there are other countries other than the US of A.
@NEaZ8cZ-poh +1 to your comments. It's in line with Chambers' theory of the longevity of corporations too.
LOL.
When you make a reputation of being hostile to older workers, fire all Americans, and hire in Bangalore, do you think Cisco plans to be in business 10 years from now?
The executives are trying to push the stock to $40. That's their target price. Once there, they will slowly sell off their stocks in a 2 year window and bolt. Cisco will not exist in year 2025.
Rubbish - the people who were hit in my organization were on cutting edge stuff that CSCO supposedly thinks is the future. They decided that they wanted these people on other (closely related) products but figured they could hire juniors in India rather than ask these people to take up something new (which I'd seen them do several times before). It was purely a cost-cutting move by a freshly minted VP who thinks the whole world can be run from Bangalore.
Leveraging existing talent sounds great on paper but the reality is different. The talent could be in different locations, with different skills. I do thinks this whole ageist argument is just nonsense. Maybe someone who has been in a role for 15 plus years doesn't have the transferable skills.
@NEaZ8cZ. I was laid off Sept. 2016. I worked in one of the areas that Cisco claimed they wanted to focus on going forward and where they were going to shift resources. The real reason I was laid of after 15+ years of service is because of my age.
lol, so why not leverage the existing high talent and/or use voluntary packages like other companies that view their employees as stakeholders instead?