Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

h6ljj, that's a neat trick, you cherry pick the 70's (some of the highest inflation rates in the century) to falsely illustrate a point and a misleading suggestion? Sure, that same person could have invested that money wisely and handily beat that figure x 100. It's called the time value of money. No one said the person, who also has a 401k (it's Chevron) needs to blow his entire lifetime annuity for them and their spouse as soon as they get it. But even if they do, they are not broke in the end, which could happen with a lump sum and unscrupulous advice, like that given on this site (lol). Do you also pick a government(taxpayer)-aided bailout period from a recession, like 2009 (~+26.5%) to illustrate annual market returns when investing?

Thanks for reviving this thread. I forget sometimes how much BS and misguided people who are not successful or make poor decisions early in life, so have to make up tall tales there are on this site, such as cYjjv.

An easy indicator of a poor, regretful decision is the way it is uselessly presented for nothing other than acceptance seeking and "self-convincing", such as cYjjv who in his imaginary wanna be life "graduated with honors, and have been a successful investor since the early 80's." No, he's not a poster or member of Bogleheads, etc., but mysteriously confined to "the layoff.com". LOL, that's priceless, pure comedy Gold! I can always come here for some cheap entertainment. Keep it up you guys!

As others have said the reason the annuity is a mistake is inflation. Within recent history it has been horrific. The 1972 retiree who took the annuity and started off on $60,000 per year saw his buying power shrivel to about $18,000/yr by 1992. Age 75 and he is already eating Alpo.

Yes I agree managing risk is the biggest thing to consider with the decision for either the annuity or lump sum. With other investments there is less risk in the pension portion. You can see from many of the comments below that many have no tolerance for risk at all and are chicken of investing, like amateurs, son.

It's also all about risk and disappointment, senior.

cYxyo, Oh I have studied up quite extensively, graduated with honors, and have been a successful investor since the early 80's. Been through good times and bad. Maybe it's you children and amateurs who need to study up a bit - he he he!!!!! It's just a shame so many of you kids are so chicken-$hit of the stock market and cannot handle your own assets. That's a good word for you... "nervousness". Stick with your non-cola'd pathetic little annuity which will get crucified by inflation son if that's all the risk that your little feeble soul can tolerate. It's all about risk and reward, junior. Study up, son, It's obvious that you have a long way to go, grasshopper!

Chevron Corporation, itself, does not administer or manage the funds in the Chevron Pension Plan. It’s handled by another non-company entity, known as a trustee. I think the trustee for the CVX Pension Plan is State Street Bank. So any inkling of nervousness you have to not trust the careful management of your Chevron annuity is unfounded. Study-up buckaroo.

I think that most people on here who take the annuity are afraid of the market and should not even be investing or discussing it. I can't even imagine trusting my pension to the loons at the CVX pension administration. Lump sum for me and I have much more confidence in better returns than the annuity would bring, although I understand nothing is guaranteed.

cXlxd, Yes you are so correct. I couldn't agree more. You should pick the right fight. Not one that you will lose, like you just did. Thanks for that sage advice. You seem to be a very consistently jealous loser, cXlxd, you may want to revamp your entire approach!

Getting in the last word might make you feel good, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you won the argument. In this case, you lost badly. Pick the right fight next time.

If there was some way to guarantee getting two or three times the calculated pension, it might actually make it worthwhile vs the lump sum. Any suggestions?

You are correct cWqpg. A situation like that is not the legal onus of the annuitant.

I also ended up choosing the annuity. And I had something happened that I did not expect, similar to what a person posting here previously mentioned. The annuity that I have been receiving is a lot larger than I was said to be due receive by Chevron and it is more than double, much more than double, I will not give you exact figures, I wish to remain anonymous, but I have no reason to dispute the payment nor do I ever intent to. I do not receive 2 exact payments when one is obviously an error, as one person figured for himself, just one per month much larger than they had originally calculated, but I am not complaining! I am happy that this has been researched and determined to not be the legal onus of the annuitant. This is a great site and source of information.

Me too. I also crunched the numbers for quite some time and ended up choosing the annuity. Then something happened I didn’t count on..... Chevron doubled my annuity. Three years so far and counting.

I crunched the numbers for quite some time This including my other numerous investments and ended up choosing the annuity. Of course it all depends on your personal particular situation.

cPehy, that's so sad for you that you spout gibberish from empty caves. English your second language? Keep studying. You posts will become coherent in due time - lol!

@cOhpl, don't mind the "I can tell who you are by your posts and patterns, terms, etc." troll. He lurks here often and has no life. It's his M.O. He used that on me once after I made my first post. There's a few on here who really need to get out more. Just saying.

Too many words, cOhpl. You’re trying too hard. Here’s a Chinese proverb for you: Big winds come from empty caves.

No denial here, cOqwh. Far from it. Just calling you out for your many postings on this site over more than a year. It’s not easy to hide your repeated signature words and childish phrases. It’s you who is bitter. It’s not too late to change.

cOsks, No dear, you pretty much lost by your first bitter, pathetic comment. Keep living in denial, though. It suits you.

I didn’t lose the argument -cNgfw. Your reply just confirmed it.

cNtey, It’s good that Chevron ran you off. I’m amazed to think how it is that we ever had people like you on the payroll. One of the best things that came out of the layoffs in the last 3 years is we got rid of many dead weight idiots as yourself. I hope you reflect on your shortcomings and are turn able to turn your bitter life around, although I won’t count on it.

cNbia, YOU, obviously! Look in the mirror.....

-cNvwc, I read your post and your pseudonym. Who is the real clown here?

LMAO! at cMpii and cMuxo! Too funny for prime time. As if someone who is actually receiving a double annuity would post that on a public website including the numbers and where he lives - LMAO ! He's got your guys hook line and sinker and keeps reeling you in. We got the guy who thinks it's a moral issue and he's the morality police, the guy who sides with the thief and his fabricated legal ruse, the whole made up stage show of make-believe clowns that the double annuity-poster set up to look like the fools that you are. Yea you keep believing this clown. He's laughing at you right now, I'm sure!. I'd sure hate for the follies to end anytime soon though, keep em comin'! I'm popping the "Movie Theater Butter" as a type this!!! Can't wait for the next episode!

cMpii - Go complain to Chevron. It’s obvious the annuity recipient has the law on his side. He’d be wise to not spend it for a while, at least until Chevron gets wise to their mistake and demands back 12 months of overpayments. Keep up posted dude.

May 31 2018 marks my 3rd year anniversary receiving the Chevron annuity pension payments. I just received my Chevron Annuity statement today stating my end of month $8878 will be deposited to my checking account, twice what I’m due. Lucky me. The gravy train continues and in the State of Texas, I’m legally entitled to keep all but the last 12 months of overpayment, if Chevron demands it back. I’ve received to date an extra $159,804 in annuity payments and able to legally keep $106,536 so far. I’ll report back here next quarter.

-bApkj. If what you are thinking of is buying a Longevity Annuity with pre-tax IRA funds, then you can only defer the start of your payments to age 85, not 90.

-bAluh: Speaking of historical revisionism, was it really the Democratic ideal that everyone should be able to buy their own home that caused the Bush crash, or the Republican lead demise of Glass-Steagall and associated deregulation of the banking industry that led to trash mortgage backed securities being given AAA ratings underpinned by credit default swaps. Whatever the answer, it looks like we in for a repeat of that experiment, since the last vestiges of banking reform was just rolled back by Trump and the Republicans.

As for the Annuity, I had been planning to take the pension when I retired (since I have a lot of other moneys in the market), but I am beginning to fear inflation more than market fluctuations. Chevron’s Annuity is a good deal, if that is the product one wants, but I am starting to like the idea of rolling the lump into an IRA and getting a long-term deferred annuity starting at say age 90 as a backup. What is definitely true is ON AVERAGE stocks will beat the Annuity... insurance costs money... surprise, surprise!

@bAzgg, You are no Einstein. Your premise and explanation make some sense, but you forgot that the person who took the annuity ALSO had a 401k balance to invest and to live on. Go back to school.

Ok Einstein. Let’s suppose it in 1999 Joe Lump took his million dollar lump sum and invested 40/60 stocks and bonds and began withdrawing $60k per year with inflation adjustments. He would have $500k today and be withdrawing $85k this year. Jane Annuit would have started with $60k annual annuity payments in 1999 but inflation would have eaten a third of that by now so it would be equaivelnt to $41k per year. Joe not only kept up with inflation he has half his original lump sum 2/3 of the way into a 30 year retirement. Anyone who took the annuity in 1999 is eating dog food at this point.

-bApyc: Let’s review: Clinton ballenced the budget. Bush led us to the biggest economic disaster since the Great Depression.... in a large part due to banking deregulation. Obama got the economy back on track. Trunk dropped 1.5 T on a tax cut almost entirely for the 10% and is pushing trickle down economics and banking deregulation (ala Bush). This created a surge in the stock market, but many economists think this likely is unsustainable and will led to a big crash down the road. Only time will tell on Trump’s legacy... but the path looks stormy (Daniels).

As for the Annuity, you can find short periods when it would have out preformed, but none spanning 10 years.

I wouldn’t buy an annuity either, -bzomr. Buying an annuity on the open market after you have elected your pension as a lump sum would be a grave mistake. If your financial situation or risk aversion leads you to choose the Chevron annuity pension, take it. But never make the blunder of taking the converted lump sum and go out to purchase an annuity. You would be robbing yourself and making some insurance company investment advisor a happy person.

A useful post of pros and cons of getting an annuity, which applies equally to the pension vs lump choice.

https://www.goodfinancialcents.com/why-you-shouldnt-buy-annuity-and-5-real-life-scenarios-when-you-should/

@bzqkc, it’s your decision to make, but you said something that makes a lot of sense; “sooner rather than later you will actually pay for some investment advice”. As a matter of fact, most investment advice you will receive is at no cost. The fees and commissions are charged as you invest, but that’s something you will be able to control yourself. Good luck in your retirement.

At some point I will pay for some actual investment advise: hopefully sooner than later as I am very good at procrastinating. In the mean time there seems to be some smart eggs replying here from time to time (under the dinn of all the butthurt chatter). Pondering the annuity vs lump question, I have already decided that I want some part of the total in an annuity. That said, since I have a full taxed brokerage account with a larger amount than my lump, I was just now thinking I might be better off putting some of my brokerage funds into an annuity. The lump can be rolled into an IRA (which is not the case for the brokerage funds), which might be a better arrangement at the end of the day even if the annuity cost is a bit higher outside Chevron.

-bvtva, All annuities end after death, no matter if it’s a Single-Life or Joint and Survivor annuity. So, starting the annuity at 70 only puts the annuitant closer to that time. Surely, the annuity amount would be higher than starting to collect it at a younger age, but what is money for other than to enjoy it while you can. It would make sense to hold off on any annuity until you stop working altogether, but each person’s situation and financial goals are different.

If you retire at 70 or so the annuity could make sense, otherwise it has unacceptable risks from inflation and Chevron bankruptcy before you die. Better to take the lump sum now, roll it in with your existing investments (or invest it conservatively if that is your thing). If you need an annuity for some reason, wait until you are the right age then get one. Last I saw Vanguard offered one as good or better than Chevrons.

Playing with Fidelity’s investment tool, dreaming of retirement, even though it is some years off yet. The “Chevronized” version came pre-populated under “additional income sources” with both “pension-single life annuity” and “Chevron retirement plan”... the latter lists a monthly income about twice the former. Does this mean I would still get a modest “pension payment” even if I were to take the lump sum (or add these two amounts to get my monthly payment if I took the Annuity), or am I just reading this wrong. Obviously I would check with HR before I get close enough to retirement that it would matter...but am just curious.

bqqrg you come off as an ugly, bitter, little person. Some actually come here with sound investing advice and you respond with nasty vitriol. Let me guess, you had a decent career but never got to the PSG you deserved because of favoritism, an unfair system, etc etc. You were a victim your entire career. You took an annuity because you don't have the horsepower to figure things out for yourself, and your realizing now that the monthly amount isn't quite enough to live a decent life, and it will never go up, so your future looks bleak. Of course, you're still a victim, and the poor bed you have to lay on is somebody else's fault. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!