Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

Good post -bivti. I agree the Chevron annuity is a great deal in comparison with other annuities out there. As you stated, the retirees who only had little time with Chevron wouldn’t profit from taking the annuity because of the small useless amount they would get. For them, the lump sum would preeent a better option.

@a1kge, You are 100% incorrect and have done no research except possibly to search for an opinion reinforcing your own, a fool's errand. The number of those who choose the annuity is much higher , honestly reported as roughly 40-50% range . Those who choose the lump sum are skewed due to the lower time-frame employees who have very little skin in the game and leaving a tiny pension for the future would be more of a nuisance than consolidation of assets, understandably. There are also those youngsters dying to spend that money or invest it frivolously. Chevron's annuity happens to be one of the better deals in the industry , being actuarially equivalent to the lump sum, making the choices basically equal. In general, the advice of any financial institution or their representatives seeking your business would be to take the lump sum, the only means through which they could earn your business and profit from your decision.

Just a few "free" tidbits for you boys & girls. You're welcome!

bhqab, I'm not sure I get your post, but If I understand it correctly, you are getting paid more than your normal amount, and you are being extremely dishonest and not reporting it, an act which most would consider a crime. Not only is it a crime, you are robbing from the pension fund, which many from the company rely on for their daily needs and existence. How is being an A-hole arrogant thief, may I ask, related to the choice between Lump sum or Annuity, which is what I clicked on this thread to read about? Is it that you have a better chance of being a dishonest prick to your fellow pensioners if you choose the annuity?

I’m waiting for the end of month February 28, 2018 to receive my monthly Chevron pension annuity payment. It will be the 33rd straight month that Chevron will direct deposit $8,778 into my account. This may not sound like news to many, but it’s double the $4,389 amount I'm supposed to be receiving. As I promised to the readers of this thread, I will keep you updated on the latest concerning my windfall. The payments keep coming and Chevron seems to be unaware. I have accumulated $144,837 plus interest, untouched in a savings account, of which by Texas law, only $52,688 can be clawed back by Chevron if they ever realize their blunder.

Good summary, a1yzg.

@a1kge - You say “wisely” like if one doesn’t choose the lump sum, they must be blatant idiots. As for that website “advising” CVX retirees into retirement strategies, it’s mire like “steering@ them in the direction they’d like them to go. Everyone is well advised to do a lot of homework and get informed by several reputable sources. Most of these wealth management firms are in it for themselves first and the client last. Caveat: I opted for the Chevron annuity and haven’t regretted it once.

The most reliable estimate I have seen is "over 80% of employees" wisely choose the lump sum over the shakey non-inflation adjusted annuity. You can find it on the insight2wealth.com web site. They claim to advise heaps of CVX employees and managers in California on retirement strategies.

Investing in an annuity AFTER electing to take the lump sum is a losing proposition for the Chevron retiree. Make up your mind and go with one or the other. If you are leaning toward an annuity, the one that Chevron offers you is way better than you can get from any any third party. Besides that, the Chevron annuity is protected by the PBGC, whereas not all private institutions selling annuities are. Once an insurance company goes bankrupt, your annuity may be gone too.

Dumb idea @7dwdv. We all worked and earned our money. No need to give any of it away to any F-ing charity.

Another option for those who choose the lump sum but need steady income is to invest part of it in a charitable gift annuity in the charity of their choice.

I agree with those taking the annuity who are married and want to take the 100% joint survivor annuity to afford them and/or their spouse a safety net which is independent of the market, and which is only reduced by inflation, a value that should be easily offset by SS which is COLA'ed. Even at 70%, COLA'd SS will do the job.Let's just hope that we can still get it at all at the time when we need it the most. In you elder years you most likely want a set it and forget it investment plan and a steady income, and you lose your sharpness, etc. even if you don't get full blown Alzheimers. The CVX annuity fits the bill, and is a decent one by most standards.

However, I can come up with multiple scenario's where the lump sum would be the preferred choice at an older age and from an older person's point of view. One easy one is that you are set for life with the rest of your investments, and you have heirs that need/could use it. Perhaps you have no spouse to leave the joint survivor annuity to, but other heirs - relatives, not legally married SO (significant other), etc., that you wish to leave it to, and let stay invested for now. I would not be a fan of leaving it to working age children who are not disabled in any way. Inheritance windfalls for young people building their careers/retirement in most cases fare badly. Yes, I know that's not a rule but in more cases than not the inheritance gets misused.

7coqk - In your case, still young and with an extended time horizon to be employable, taking the lump sum was a wise decision. Especially by applying the money to pay off debt and your mortgage. You've turned the payout into an asset. Congrats to you. Good luck moving forward and try to build your 401k faster with the years you have left to work.

I am in my early 40's and took the lump Doeneeded the cash to pay off some bills (mortgage, etc.). Paid the penalty and taxes and spent the money within a year. Even if I didn't use the money immediately, I would have taken the lump sum and combined it with my 401k/IRA and invested it in stocks due to my long term investment horizon (>10 years).

Almost all annuity takers are retirees who are older and don't plan to work a job anymore. Like the previous poster said, once you retired after 58 to 62, you become very conservative and avoid much risk. Almost everyone who quickly exclaim they'll jump at the lump sum, either don't have much of a month annuity amount to mention or they are young people who are currently working and need to work another 15 years or more before considering retirement. Ask a mature and immature person a single question and you'll get an opposingly different answer about 95% of the time, guaranteed.

Could you buttheads and trailer trash like 7apdr, 7bcaz and 7cjrs please take it to the Yahoo! millennial boards were you belong? Thanks.

I chose the annuity because of the same reasons as posted on the GE Pension program is in trouble thread. The Pension Guarantee Program, etc, etc. plus the unpredictability of the market and sequence of returns risk made it a no-brainer for me. I would like to hear from some people taking the lump sum and some serious reasons why. No market-timers please. Retirees in general are at the most conservative AA (Asset Allocation) in their entire lifetimes. If you are not nearing retirement, it's not a life decision for you and it would be arm-chair quarterbacking. No need to post peanut-gallery comments.

7bcaz, Wow, can you be any more pathetic? The " you live in a trailer and I'm better than you" come-back? SOOO Original!!!! Speak with the knowledge/experience that you have. You apparently know intimately of the area that you live down there.

7apdr, Yes, butthead. I have confirmed your math. It is OK to steal based on that. And we should all rob banks, also, as the percent stolen should be even less! Right on, dude!

Enjoy your popcorn while you can, 7bjlr. Later in your miserable life when you have to move your broken down trailer under a bridge somewhere in rural west Texas, your laughter will became woes of despair.

OMG, the millennial simpleton dillweed without a clue, @GEjhx1M-7apdr, is back on this site calling posts "speaking" and promoting fraud and thievery. Now please tell us how the lump sum is so great because you know how to time the market again.

I just put some popcorn on....... LMAO!!!!

An extra $4800 or even $48,000 a month lost out of the $1++ billion pension fund is a pittance and would not affect its solvency one iota. Get a clue before you speak.

78mhi, Yes Indeed, The only ones who should be concerned are the other pensioners who's pension fund he is stealing from, decreasing it's stability and solvency. Glad that's not me - LOL!

I don't see how the long arm of the law will give a hoot about this. No laws being broken. The IRS could get involved for monies legally gained under Texas statutes if taxes are not paid to Uncle Sam. But that's another matter. To my understanding, it's Chevron's lack of diligence for failing to detect this mistake for 24 months running. Someone in charge of the company pension plan is absent or asleep at the switch.

Yes, I agree. I always side with dishonest low-life thieves. I like to see how long it takes before they get caught and the long arm of the law (and IRS in this case) comes down on them - LOL!

78kzk - what business is it to you or me what that guy does? I read the thread. I've heard of these things happening before. It's an error and will be discovered sooner or later. What intrigued me more than anything is the fact that Texas has a law on the books that enables anyone receiving annuity payments, erroneous or miscalculated, to actually keep the sum of money if they received it without employing deceptive practices to obtain it and no attempt was made to notify the recipient of the error within 12 months. It's amazing this has been going on for so long. My guess is he sees the law on his side since it has been two years of getting double his annuity amount. He has legally pocketed one years worth of payments that Chevron cannot claim back. He may be curious to see how much longer this will go on.

No, Believe me, you do not want "double payment". There is an idiot on here who keeps posting about that and it has literally turned him to an obsessed, stressed out, obnoxious, uneasy, jittery paranoid freak, not to mention a dishonest thief. In addition, he keeps trolling on this site trying to seek some sort of perverse approval from others to legitimize his illegal, dishonest actions. Pathetic. He keeps saying how he is all content and justified in doing it, but then again, why would he be so compelled to seek approval on this site? A dead giveaway. Poor guy. Now come on out here and deny it, my little pathetic hapless fella. Come and seek your therapy. Too bad you'll never get it here. It's inside YOU. And either you have what it takes to live in your own honest truth and live up to your wrongdoing or not. Strong - or pathetic little weakling. Your choice.

I'm a current employee with 28 years of service at Chevron. My inclination at this time is to go with the annuity when I retire. It would be nice to get a double payment (lol) if Chevron would see its way clear to give that to me, but I'd be in good shape with my expected annuity amount in any case.

There are about 200 trolls here (I excluded the first 50 posts as some good points were made early on...one being if you have some low wage years in your past make sure HR as your real SS earning records when they do your retirement calculations. Most of the rest are hot air ... what do you folks not understand about the phrase "actuarially equivalent". The lump will most likely on average earn you a higher rate of return by the end of the day and the annuity is a safer bet... pay your money and make your choice. Personally I am taking the annuity because I want some fixed base income, despite the fact that I am sure I could "handle" the risk (given my other assests). I see it as yet another type of diversification...and if you want an annuity this is about the best deal you can get. To each his\her own. Just be thankful you have choices!

@GEjhx1M-76hcv, I am "We", and you are one of my underlings, TROLL!

@75ijp, who do you purport to be when you say "we" and who are you to give any financial advise? Troll.

@GEjhx1M-75mss, Yes, we generally advise you to take the lump sum in all but a few rare cases, that is the advice that I give to all of my team members and coworkers. We feel that is the best choice for your savings growth, when properly invested. Taking the lump sum is also best for the company and the integrity and longevity of Chevron's pension program. Thanks for being a company person and team player. Remember, we wouldn't exist without you.

I think you will find a variation by pay grade. Lowest grade levels may go for the lump sum out of necessity to pay bills or upgrade their boat. Middle grades have an increase in annuitants who understand enough about managing money not to trust themselves with a lump sum and who are nervous investors (some have said they are scared about 401k). Once you reach very far into management pay grades, everyone takes the lump sum. They understand the math as to why it is the more valuable alternative when investing and they also don't like the future potential for inflation or collapse of the pension fund.

75eii, I think the problem with buttwipe's example of $500 is he gave you a 6% annuity, based on the payout versus lump sum, (not Actual ROR), which is good by most standards and most would take the annuity, with adequate professional advice. That was a poor example to use. Do they expect Chevron employees to know math? Maybe not.

75fdd, Yet, that is not the case, is it? You know that these are all Chevron employees here and offered basically the same options. However, posting anonymously on a layoffs forum to a bunch of deadwood loser types is pretty much meaningless and will generally produce useless information, like that which you just posted, and no one's criticizing that, so what's the difference?

Knowing the percentage of ex-employees who choose the annuity vs lump sum is meaningless and not useful information if you are not given a breakdown of other factors like, the age of the ex-employee, years of service, the amount of the lump sum vs the annuity amount, etc. If my annuity was only $500/month but the lump sum was computed to be $100,000, I bet 99% would jump at the lump sum because it offered more options to the retiree.

These are some informative comments. A while back the discussion was about which percentage of employees chose the lump sum over the annuity. Most people guessed wrong, thinking that 90% or so choose the lump Doesuppose those were younger employees, they tend to think like that, invincible, can time the market, etc. A link to a study showed that, in the past, only about 60% or so chose the lump sum. Everyone was surprised. I may be a little off on that figure. I wonder how many choose either one today? Times have changed. Also the CVX annuity is a bit better than many. There was a rule of thumb on one of the retirement forums that if you can get 6% or more,(based on the lump sum) then take the annuity. I think that meant just straight up payment. Not actual calculated ROR, like from that calculator that figures in all of the variables.

My Chevron annuity is paying out a fixed 6.1% equivalent rate of return. Guaranteed for the rest of my life and that of my spouse. That's a more than fair return. Try averaging that in the market consistently after expense ratios and other fees. Granted that some years the market will return a better than 6.1%, but take into account how much more you would need to earn to break even if your annual return is less than that. Making up shortfalls in retirement while taking distributions requires higher returns because you are trying to do so with an ever shrinking balance. I already have a hard enough time trying to manage my 401 and other investments in the market. I chose the annuity along with my social security for stability and peace of mind.

On average and using the actuarial mortality statistics, choosing the annuity or lump sum should have no significant difference for most retirees. Everyone should only apply some basic logic (health, debt/obligations, risk tolerance, etc) to avoid making a terrible life decision.

-74woh I am willing to bet that the unhealthy losers that -74pwf speaks of and works with are one and the same as the people who would wisely choose the lump sum, for whatever that's worth, so it's bias by association. It's a sad and depressing choice to have to make, knowing that you need to base it on the premise that you will have a much shorter lifetime than average. However, that is wise, and -74pwf makes an excellent point. If you are a pathetically unhealthy "butthurt" loser who makes all the wrong life decisions, the lump sum is for you. You don't have much time left. Might as well enjoy it while you can - LOL! ;-)

-74pwf, Not sure where you work but most of my peers, also near retirement are extremely healthy, above average, eat well and many of us work out together. Not that health itself is the only factor in longevity, understood. Sorry to hear that you work in such an unhealthy environment. Because of that, as been said many times on these threads, Chevron is more than happy to "Buy-off" and kiss goodbye the hapless poor souls who take the lump sum. You can't blame them either, that's a much better deal for the company.

Lately Chevron is hurt worse by the historic low cost interest rates which make the lump sum so astronomical. If interest rates were closer to the historic average, the lump sum would be less of a screaming deal for retirees. I'm pretty sure Chevron is happy with the annuitants because most Chevron employees are not healthy enough to live to their actuarial age so the company saves big.