Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

Some people will never understand (or will and say they don't). It's not stealing if you didn't take it. I recall the dude said he's not spending it either. I think you are someone who wishes he was so lucky, to be getting a double annuity.

Yes - that's my plan - LOL - to try for the annuity and see if I get 2 payments, then I can pocket the one that I worked for and earned and also pocket the one that I stole from you guys as a dishonest scumbag back-stabbing thief! Then I can sit around and drink scotch and brag to my fellow retirees as I rape the system and lie about it. I will say "no, it's not stealing" even though I am taking something that I did not earn and I wasn't supposed to receive.

For the most part, it's true the Chevron pension annuity and lump sum payout are actuarially equivalent, unless you are one of the very few lucky retirees who get paid a "double annuity" by the pension plan administrators. Some appear to hit the lottery.

12uuf - Thanks for your perspective. I agree that lump summers are taking a risk in terms of trying to beat the stock market and/or spending on frivolous/extravagant items. I also believe that there's an inherent risk in the annuity, e.g., we die early and unexpectedly. Not pleasant to think about, but it is a possibility. Then the pension money is gone, and in my case it's a huge sum of money. Money that we would like our children to have if possible. I grew up on welfare and was homeless most of my childhood. I understand about working hard in life and that nothing is free. My children have their basic needs taken care of (like clean clothes, warm food and a solid roof over their heads), but they are also expected to work and contribute to the family and society. That being said, if my spouse and I are able to leave them some money after we're gone, we consider it a gift that we are fortunate enough to give them. With respect to rolling my lump sum into a 401(k), our plan involves very conservative investing with the goal of keeping the principal intact. We are not extravagant people, and don't see that changing anytime soon, so we are not concerned about burning through the money. While studies may show that most people take a lump sum and that they perhaps burn through that money, not everyone who takes the lump sum goes down the same path. Just like life, everyone is different. Financial advice and guidelines are helpful, but there is no perfect answer.

The last reason that I would do anything from an investing perspective is to "follow the crowd". That seems to be the sentiment behind some of these discussions. There are some posts that I have been reading which imply that if the majority of people make a decision, than it is more likely to be the best decision. Not true. Never was true.

It has already been established on earlier threads that the two options are actuarially equivalent. In fact, the annuity is a great deal if it suits your situation, i.e. - no heirs, or heirs are dependent, or simply you wish for your heirs to earn a living on their own and learn that nothing in life is free, one of the most valuable lessons in the world. You can not get a comparable annuity on the open market for as low of a price(the lump sum) as the CVX pension. There are many reasons which you would choose the lump sum, if you have time that you need to claim little income and get ACA subsidies that would be one. Many younger people with smaller sums who want to invest and consolidate may have good reasons. It has been studied and it seems that more people who take the lump lump tend to blow it quickly and lose it all on frivolous things. The last of the reasons you would EVER want to make a financial decision this big is because "all the cool kids are doing that". I would include this one. The majority of employees in history when offered a lump sum or annuity have always chosen the lump sum. That's no secret. It's like 60-70% or so depending on year/business/etc. Someone here cited a study. The majority of those who take the lump sum blow it. That's no secret either. Thinking that you can time or beat the stock market shouldn't be part of your plans for a secure income stream in retirement.

12nml - thanks for the sage advice. We've spent a couple of years researching what to do. It sure would be nice to have a crystal ball. Taking the lump sum makes sense for us for a variety of reasons, but taking the annuity would be a very good choice, too. We just feel fortunate that we even have a choice. Your comments and advice are succinct, well-informed and should be required reading for anyone trying to figure out their options.

Good for you, 12zil. After 33 years with Chevron, I'm sure the lump sum pension will be high, but so will the annuity. There choice certainly is yours to make. If you invest your lump sum sufficiently well and you don't outlive your statistical mortality, it should last long enough, but maybe not to leave anything to your kids. Live longer than expected and you may end up having your kids support you. There are many factors to consider, so get good advise from 2 or 3 certified financial advisors you can trust. Ask lots of questions. If you are debt free when you retire, see if you are able to live on the guaranteed lifetime annuity and social security combined. If you need only a small amount more, you can draw it from your 401k. If you are confident in managing your 401k investments, you should be able to make it last and fulfill your goal of leaving an inheretance to your kids. Your home also has value, so that too can go to the kids. Consider all the risks when taking your pension. Chevron's annuity is quite generous. It pays much more than buying an annuity on the open market later on.

Am taking the lump sum because of the large amount involved (33+ years with Chevron). If something happens to me and my spouse, the money is gone, nothing left for my children I'd rather roll the lump sum into my 401(k) and manage it on my own. At a Chevron-focused Vanguard retirement seminar, they mentioned that most of their Chevron clients took the lump sum. Glad to see this thread back on topic.

@11swd - Be careful about waiting for uncertainties in the market to go away. There's always a lot of uncertainty in the market, and when the market appears to be safe, that is often when it is most risky. Remember Greenspan's concern about "irrational exuberance" in Dec. 1996. When investors are comfortable that the market is safe, then everyone is all-in, at which point any small bit of bad news can send money heading for the exits, and there's no new money left to replace it. That's why market timing is so dangerous for most people. (Disclaimer: I'm not taking any position on annuity vs lump sum, where interest rates are headed, or whether now is a good time to invest in the market).

We'll be in low interest rate mode for a few more years, so low inflation as well. Big plus for taking the annuity. World economy is in disarray and stock markets are finding no upward direction. This will continue for a few more years. Another reason to take the annuity. The annuity will give you diversity and a guaranteed cash flow. Keep your 401k for investing, but for now, be cautious where you invest. Be conservative and low risk. For the next 5 years, the best place to be is working and drawing a nice paycheck. Retire only after this uncertainty in the markets subsides.

I took the lump sum. I just wanted to manage the money myself and leave most of it to my heirs, but from what I understand it is roughly the same value-wise. In fact if I needed a secure income stream to live I think the annuity is a much safer bet. This is an interesting topic/argument being discussed below here about the guy who receives 2 pension checks. That is definitely theft and there is no two ways about it and it is damaging to not only the pension program but also will be to yourself when they discover the mistake. I strongly suggest reporting that and getting it straightened out before it comes back to haunt you, but that's just my opinion. To each his own.

Also - nice Fake out on the "I'll be sleeping late" - Very funny. You will be tossing and turning, because you are no better than a common scumbag criminal and would not be continuing posting if you didn't know that. You are just amazed that someone called you out for the turd that you are.

@GEjhx1M-11jpt, Thanks for the update, Crooked, lying stealing thief. I'm certain that all of your fellow retiree's appreciate you letting them all know that you are living large while Fvcking them in the A$$. Sleep tight and enjoy your poison while your fellow retiree's struggle to make ends meet but at least don't have to worry about being dishonest and having a guilty conscience when they go about their HONEST lives. .

Get off my case, sad sack. I'm having a fine scotch at the moment after grilling sockeye salmon and 1.5-inch ribeye steaks for Memorial Day. I do sleep well at night and wake up refreshed, although after the heavy dinner tonight, I'll probably sleep in late. Retirement is good for some people, like me. You sure don't sound like you're having a good one. So long. I'll be back to check this thread next month just after Chevron direct deposits my annuity payments.

No, sweetheart, I ER'd FI years ago. You try to sleep, though. If I were stealing from ANYONE, much less my fellow retiree's and coming up with some lame rationalization of it online, I wouldn't be getting much sleep. I do not rest easily as a stealing, backstabbing, lying, cheating crooked thief skirting the law and doing it to my compadres, the people I toiled with side by side year after year. Screwing them over month after month. That's not my style, thank you very much.

You DO try, though, dear.

You suppose correctly, that it wouldn't be OK if someone was stealing from MY checking account every month. Where your logic goes astray is that I'M NOT reaching into Chevron's pension account every month and stealing money. Just the other way around in fact. Chevron is reaching into my account and leaving money behind. If you have work tomorrow, I suggest you get off this website and relax the rest of the evening.

Yes, Continue to make up your own twisted logic and morality, that's typical of deranged pathological liars and thieves. You know you are a thief and are stealing from others, You are stealing from the pension fund and it's not that it's a little or a lot, but the fund is only set up to return a certain required output on it's invested assets. You are upsetting that balance because you are a crook who steals from others and that's what crooks do. In this case you are stealing from your fellow retirees. It's very simple. You seem to be an idiot who either doesn't understand what stealing is, or are just trying to rationalize in your own mind that stealing is OK for you. I suppose that it wouldn't be OK if someone was stealing from YOUR checking account every month. You probably wouldn't like that. And NO, other people don't enjoy a fulfilling life as a liar, crook and thief, speak for yourself. Most people who are thieves are pathetic desperate souls with no closure, always watching their back and will never be comfortable. After all, you are taking something that belongs to someone else which you did not earn. I'm not surprised that you keep going on and on about it online to try to get some sort of twisted anonymous approval. Ain't gonna happen. You can curse Chevron all that you want, but you will rarely get anyone to tell you that it's OK to steal from them or anyone else. Unless they are just playing up to your situation, basically feeding you a line, as they are safe from persecution, after all - You will be the one left with with your pants down, not them!

There you go again mixing morality with legality. The sooner you accept that both are mutually exclusive, the faster you may start enjoying life to the fullest. Going against the law will land you in trouble fast, but no one cares that much morals. It seems to trouble you greatly as you mention the word "sin". It's a question about one's philosophy how we decide to live in this world, already filled with "sin", to use that word. That aside, I sleep very well too for your knowledge. BTW, I'm not asking you or anyone for their judgement, I'm just posting an account of what's going on with my pension and what I'm doing. No sooner than Chevron discovers their mistake and fires the responsible manager or administrator, I'll return the safe kept money and I'll be back to tell everyone the rest of the story.

@GEjhx1M-10wax, Yes, That is correct. Like all moral and law-abiding citizens who are not liars and cheaters and thieves, I am concerned with being moral and also not breaking the law. You, on the other hand are concerned with neither. That is a sad and pathetic way to exist. Living a life in sin. I suggest you review the law too. You are breaking quite a few, including tax laws by not claiming income. That is probably the least, morally, but you will find out in due time that has the greatest consequences, ironically. Good luck sleeping at night and living in sin. May God have pity on your poor damaged soul.

You seem to be too concerned with morality @10lji, whereas I'm talking about legality. It's a moral issue on my part to not alert Chevron of their continuing mistake, but certainly there's nothing illegal for me to stay quiet and save the money. Chevron may have been in their legal right to lay me off last year, but they weren't too moral about how they handled the selection of who stayed and who left. Well, I'm just applying the same moral/legal question to the subject at hand. I learned a lesson from Chevron, one whete legality supersedes morality.

No, you are Stealing and you are an idiot. You don't get to take something that does not belong to you and "PUT IT IN A SPECIAL PLACE" and let that dictate in your little pea-brain whether or not it is stealing or not after you took something that does not belong to you, idiot. If your wife is an attorney then she is an idiot also and needs to be re-seasoned. She has not dealt with the IRS before. Keep up with the BS. It's entertaining.

12 months and counting, @10kpr. That's how long Chevron has been making this mistake sending me twice my annuity amount. I'm not stealing anything. They simply keep depositing it in my checking account each month. I would be a thief only if I spent it. Oh yes, my wife is a seasoned attorney and knows the legalities quite well.

@GEjhx1M-10cvy, You should mind your own business. If this guy is a thief and is stealing from the company, that's on his conscience. and is not your concern. Mind your own business. Also, I'm tired of reading the same old BS. I don't even believe that a thief like that would work for Chevron and expect to be able to continue that crap without getting caught. No one is that stupid. It's a ridiculous concept. It's BS, no one believes you, so just STFU with it and scram.

The fact that it is "not reported income" is one of your main problems with the IRS. I have a family member who that happened to for just a couple of payments and it is NO CAKEWALK!!! You must HAVE NOT researched it, you have not sought legal advice and you have no clue. The only thing you may have researched is how you can get away with your stealing and the odds and time frame of them finding out that they are getting raped by a dishonest/unscrupulous person. The people reading these threads are not idiots.

Good luck with your thievery. You will need it.

What's that you say, 10kbb? That I'm the only one who can alleviate/repair my predicament, and good luck explaining my issues to the IRS? What about the Chevron pension administrators? Can't they alleviate/repair this predicament by checking up on things and fixing the mistake? I suppose they can't or have no reason to do so. And about the IRS, what explaining do I need to do? Chevron doesn't report it at all on the W2. Not a cent of the duplicate amounts, only my legitimate payments. Besides, it's not my income and I don't spend it. I just tuck it away for safe keeping. Why should I have to declare anything to the IRS? Believe me, I've researched the legality of the situation. What I'm doing carries no repercussions and it doesn't bother me morally either. I'm gaining the sense after 1 year that Chevron knows it's going on but chooses to leave things the way they are, at least for now.

@GEjhx1M-10cyo, No one needs to "CALL" you a thief. You are a thief. By law. Nothing you or anyone on this forum can change that fact and you are the only one who can alleviate/repair your predicament. Good luck explaining your issues to the IRS and to anyone else it may concern, particularly the pension administrators. And YES it does affect the pension program which relies on investment income. If you were not an inconsiderate thief and knew a little about investing, finance and economics you would have a clue.

Good luck with your life as a white-collar criminal.

I'm wondering, 10apl, if you are the same person that commented last month or are someone new pretending to sound like you? Doesn't matter, really. If you call me a thief for keeping the money, what do you call the Chevron department that has been sending me the money for the last 12 months? Maybe you need to read back in the thread a bit to know my motivation. I'm keeping the extra annuity payments safe. I'm not going to enjoy it, but my kids will inherit a nice sum after the years go by and the company still goes unaware. Only time will tell what happens. Did you receive the annual report last month stating the health of our Chevron Retirement Plan? It's in better shape than it was the year before. The pension plan is well funded. I wouldn't worry about it going bust, even as I and likely a few others get paid double annuity payments.

@GEjhx1M-Xaxg, Thanks for at least admitting that you are a Thief and that you continue to steal from the Chevron pension plan, and are a crook and like to steal from others. We also enjoy your routine anecdotes about how TAKING MONEY THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU IS NOT STEALING BECAUSE YOU HAVE A SPECIAL CHECKING ACCOUNT IN YOUR NAME THAT YOU PUT THE LOOT THAT YOU STOLE FROM YOUR FELLOW RETIREES IN!!!!! You can't make this $hit Up.

You just keep stealing from the Chevron pension plan and telling the other retirees that you are robbing them blind and not telling the administration dept. that you are STEALING. I'm sure all the retirees who hope that the plan remains solvent appreciate you stealing from them!! Thanks for being honest about your dishonesty!!

Today, May 27 and received my annuity payment advise in the mail for my May 31 Chevron annuity. Again and for the 12th time, they are not sending me $4,389, but $8,778 (double the amount). Again, I will be transfering the duplicate amount to my separate savings account for safe keeping. It now will have a balance of $52,668 plus interest. Can you believe these incompetent pension managers? One year so far getting twice the payment and nobody is the wiser. Oh well, keep it coming boys. One day you'll realize the mistake and it only gets worse for the manager in charge who is letting this slide.

I would have much more respect for someone who Owns UP to being a Cheating, Lying Thief. No one is that stupid. You are either a conniving- Lying A-hole with no morals or a complete Idiot. I honestly don't believe that you are that much of an idiot to not know that KNOWINGLY ACCEPTING/TAKING MONEY THAT IS NOT YOURS IS STEALING. You are a thief. You know that. Don't act stupid. Stupidity is no longer a valid excuse because you have read this many times from many posters on this thread. Good luck sleeping at night as a thief stealing from poor pensioners with very little means.

Repetitive posters are morons. So, case closed with you. For everyone else, you'll hear back from me on this thread at the end of May if and when Chevron sends me another duplicate annuity payment. Until then...

You are lying to yourself. Be a man and own up.

You are knowingly STEALING and are trying to justify your actions to yourself and others on a public forum. You took it, you accepted it, it does not belong to you. That's called stealing. Come back with whatever sort of twisted justification that you want to. You should at least be honest to yourself and to others, own up to it, and laugh it off. But don't lie to yourself. Stealing is stealing. You have been advised. You know it now. You are Stealing.

End of story - Case Closed

Close the case in your mind, @Aqgc. I'm not stealing and I'm convinced of that. Stealing is spending something one robs. I haven't robbed anything. I didn't initiate a theft. I am being given something by error and not spending it. That's all you need to know. Don't judge me either. I will return the money when and if Chevron discovers or cares to ask for it. If the company comes asking, I want to know who will stand accountable for this gross error. I was laid off by management for no cause having to do with underperformance. The underperformance of someone in management is responsible for these duplicate payments and nothing has been done about it after 11 months and counting. Your outrage is misplaced. You best direct it against your company and its inept management.

What a double-talking, double-dipping, two-faced lying thief. You are knowingly STEALING and are trying to justify your actions to yourself and others on a public forum. You took it, you accepted it, it does not belong to you. That's called stealing. Come back with whatever sort of twisted justification that you want to. You should at least be honest to yourself and to others, own up to it, and laugh it off. But don't lie to yourself. Stealing is stealing. You have been advised. You know it now. You are Stealing.

End of story - Case Closed

@Anll and @yqfk - I am the poster receiving the double annuity payment. I reiterate, I'm not stealing the pension money from Chevron. I'm keeping it safe in a separate account. Chevron will get it back once they ask for it and hold the inept manager accountable for this happening for 11 months and counting. As far as taxes are concerned, there is no problem here. I reported previously that the W2 I received for my 2015 taxes did not show the duplicate payments, only my own. Also, I initially elected not to have any taxes withheld from my annuity payments. So as you can see, I don't have any conflict with the IRS or any tax returns to amend.

Yes Indeed. I had a similar situation with a company that I worked for. It is no CAkeWALK!!!" The tax corrections are a total nightmare. It took approx. 3 years for me to clear it all up. From one "simple mistake".

That double pension dude is likely going to be in a world of hurt.

Chevron is not making interest or able to invest that money while it's in his account. He knows he has it and is therefore depriving them of that. He will likely encounter legal issues the longer it goes on and he knows about it.

Not only is he knowingly denying them that money, and their ability to invest it, he's probably making interest on his own. What about taxes on the extra income? If he's not paying taxes on it, that's a problem (tax fraud). If he is paying taxes on it, he will have a lot of revised tax forms to fill out for each year it happened, once the mistake is discovered. And is he paying taxes on the interest? All this will have to be explained to the IRS and state tax authorities and they probably won't understand it and will require tons of documentation, letters, calls, and probably tax attorneys. He's creating a real mess for himself.

Imagine having to explain all that in letters, including why he knowingly kept the money, to the IRS. Or he lies and says he didn't know it but.....it's already documented in message board discussions.

GUILTY as charged. This guy should serve some time for STEALING from all of his fellow pensioners. The pension fund is not unlimited. The next thing we will hear is that annuities will have to be reduced because certain individuals have been double dipping at the expense of others. I can't believe this guy can sleep at night knowing that he is stealing from others with very little means.

You are a god damn thief.

Yes, @wjex. It means a lot to me. "Chevron getting it right" also means a lot to me too. Let Chevron find out about their mistake (11 months and counting) and request the return of the mounting balance I hold for them. But, when they come asking for its return, let them also fire the dumbass manager who is responsible for this. Don't call me thief as I haven't spent a cent. Reserve that name for the inept Chevron manager who doesn't even know what's going on and is allowing the pension fund to be depleted. If it's happening to me, be assured I'm not the only one. Meanwhile, my holding account is growing rapidly.