Thread regarding 3M layoffs

If ‘virtue signaling’ in this case means being a decent human being, thanks; otherwise, go eff yourself.

Your ability to equivocate and justify sxism, rcism, and h*omophobia is exactly what’s wrong with the world. On a message board where >50% of posts gripe at the ineptitude of our largely white male leadership, you want to make assumptions about the merits of the minority? Leaders in this company appear to fail up and have apparently been doing so for decades.

What sort of discrimination are you cool with?… one day we’ll all be shown the door because of ageism and all your merit won’t mean sh*t then… until that day be a decent human and don’t assume everyone is a DEI hire.

Well duh. Of course there have been incompetent "white guys" hired. The problem, that you were not bright enough to coalesce in your gray matter, is that the DEI programs make all the "protected class" people immediately suspect. And that hurts them and everyone, frankly. After a few misfires you start to make assumptions on why someone was hired. Yeah assumptions can be bad but we all know they came from somewhere, usually based in experience. But go ahead and virtue signal.

Yep… good thing 3M has never hired a single incompetent white man… checks out.

Truth is you hold underrepresented people to a higher standard… of course you might realize that if you also weren’t uncomfortable with leaning about unconscious bias.

Roast me.

"By hiring and retaining the best available talent,"

The words publicly spoken are not the real basis for the DEI policies. It is pure politics and always has been. Just because they used a cover story to try to gaslight and sell it doesn't mean anything. When you see incompetent hires and it just so happens they are one of the DEI class, then you know they took "identity" over merit. I hate that fact as it taints too many with the seeds of doubt at first encounter. They might be good, but you have doubts due to the sudden explosion of protected class people...

It IS a balance sheet issue. By hiring and retaining the best available talent, the company does better. That's actually what DEI is for.

The negatives come from bad implementation.

DEI adds nothing to the company's overall financial well-being. Show on the balance sheet where it actually makes the company money. You can't. That does not mean that the social and emotional programming that came with DEI didn't make people feel more valued, but people who do physical work for a living couldn't care less.

Hire me a team that can comprehend how to read an operations manual, operate a machine safely and efficiently, and I couldn't care less what they like to do outside of work.

It isn't a work issue. It's a catering issue to provide a hiring avenue to those who can't pass a performance test on the floor.

Just my two cents worth that nobody asked for, but there it is. I want competent workers, not back scratchers for any cause.

people are confusing implementation with the objectives. Poor implementation of DEI will result in unfortunate results. But that doesn't mean the strategy of opening up opportunity is flawed, just because some implementations are. fix the implementation, not the objectives!

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

@q7+1jkeqtpej

I attended a talk at 3M many years ago on unconscious bias from an external speaker, and the punchline they ended with was more or less, "so now that we're aware of this human cognitive phenomenon, let's all try to keep it front of mind." I was kind of stunned. "Unconscious" is literally in the name.

I'm into behavioral psychology/economics (Gladwell, Ariely, Kahneman) and had a position I could leverage at the time, so I reached out to a VP or director level HR contact, asking why 3M doesn't take the scientific approach: instead of just "trying harder," why not do exactly what you said? Make resumes blind, withhold names until the interview process, etc. This was inspired by reading about blind auditions for females orchestras, which certainly did sound to be discriminated against. After they implemented curtains, way more females gained chairs.

I also put the suggestion forth to the Chief Diversity officer at the time. The response was that going blind might remove protective measures already in place (I can't remember specifics, but e.g. a requirement to interview at least one female for a role).

I feel torn about it. I really liked the idea, and thought that if 3M published such a practice, it could set a high bar among peers by taking the route of removing the opportunity to have bias in the first place. It follows the science. It could also result in less hiring in the demographics they want to boost. Seems we'll never know

This topic is very complex and I have no easy answers. I think resume studies are worth looking into for those who think discrimination is just a thing of the past. I also don't know if it's as simple as "since civil rights we're all on equal footing now." That said, quota based hiring strikes me as treating minorities like a resource (every big company is proclaiming their DEI targets, but the technical population doesn't look like the general population, so many of them will simply fail).

I'd feel a lot better if 3M was investing in root causes, but that is a way more involved and slow journey. Either way, claiming this as a core part of one's identity/mission and changing it to gain the favor of an administration is hard to feel proud of from either side of the aisle.

Who defines "backgrounds"? It almost certainly only includes skin color, gender, and s-xual orientation. "Access to opportunities for all", except if you don't meet the diversity quota for a particular program or job, right? What does "equitable environment" mean? This reads like it was written by Ibram X. Kendi.

So we all have the same definition of DEI: “actively promoting the presence of people from various backgrounds within an organization, ensuring fair treatment and access to opportunities for all, and creating a culture where everyone feels welcomed, respected, and able to fully participate, regardless of their differences; essentially aiming to create a more inclusive and equitable environment for all individuals within a group or workplace.”

You don't need quotas or special programs that only people from preferred identity groups are allowed to be in to accomplish that. Anonymize job applications to remove any demographic information (including names, if you think people discriminate based on them). Keep interviews blind if you want. Select the best candidate from that pool. Having HR personnel previously focused on DEI tasks create detailed job descriptions with specific skills or experience required would also help identify the best candidate for the role. Way too many vague job descriptions out there, especially at 3M.

The "diversity hire" stereotype is a thing because there is more truth to it than DEI proponents are willing to admit. DEI is absolutely not about hiring the best person. It's about attempting to solve what DEI proponents believe is "systemic racism" by forcing managers into hiring candidates from "oppressed" identity groups to solve for historic wrongs. It's nonsense and is rightfully going into the trash bin of history, at least until the next high-profile police ki-ling of a minority.

@q0+1jkeqtpej

"The big question is " How in the world does someone with no prior managerial experience" get straight to that level with limited work experience, limited educational experience ...basically a substandard candidate by any measure"

And the answer is: cronyism, nepotism, favouritism... any number of practices that 3M and other corps have engaged in since time immemorial. But I suppose those are all OK because they advantage the "in group"?

DEI was never about giving positions to unqualified people, or whatever other nonsense Fox News demonized it as. It was about opening up hiring practices so that we could find qualified people whom we wouldn't normally look at; to hire the best people even if they may not have looked like the majority of applicants in your area. Straight white Christian men are certainly not the only qualified people in this world.

Reply to @m6+1jkeqtpej

One example of sensible leadership does not make a candidate get to a Lab Director level, which is a position that very few in 3M can aspire to get.

The big question is " How in the world does someone with no prior managerial experience" get straight to that level with limited work experience, limited educational experience ...basically a substandard candidate by any measure....unless that candidate is part of a DEI quota and that quota needs to be filled since it was a corporate fad at that time !

Decisions like these made many level headed people in 3M and elsewhere turn their back completely against any DEI initiatives.

I know the supposed DEI hire mentioned below. I can't comment on the person's technical qualifications nor leadership of the group. But I can attest to the person's clear and sensible leadership in several cases, one in which other CRL managers were dithering around about process and nuances, and this person basically said to stop the silliness and focus on the overall objectives. hard to describe here. it certainly annoyed many - but (person) was spot on and got the group to achieve a meaningful result.

I appreciated all my other interactions with (person)'s professionalism and aggressiveness at getting results.

As long as the hat stays on, DEI Initiatives are low/no priority.

Don't ever think you're safe from "attacks". It's what they do.

DEI can be a force for good when done properly.

However during Covid era, 3M followed this corporate fad blindly and had two main objectives : hire or promote candidates from one particular gender in mid level or top tier roles and hire more minorities at entry level positions.

One particular example that was a complete and utter disaster comes to mind.

A DEI hire was brought in CRL at a Lab Director level (equivalent to a T6). This candidate had no previous managerial experience and was a process engineer and a patent agent in a semiconductor/ software company and was straightaway given charge of about 35 people including many senior researchers in CRL.

The whole group was in disarray and it was chaotic beyond description for the two years that the DEI Director was in charge, since this person was utterly unqualified for the job. The fact that this person was technically shallow and full of hot air and did not have any people management skills did not help either !

Eventually senior personnel in the group protested and the VP was forced to transfer this DEI candidate to a business development role in a division with zero direct reports.

The candidate eventually left 3M and is currently a Federal employee.

There were and are many deserving candidates for that role but 3M did not spend the time or make the effort in hiring the right candidate. Hence quite the disastrous consequence.

@hr+1jkeqtpej

Here is one:
https://wasterecycling.org/womens-council/

Your logical problem is opportunity equals success. Any elite group may be unbalanced demographically, I have no problem with that so long as the opportunity is equitable.

To build on your military example, women have strong inherent physiological advantages to be fighter pilots. They are smaller and lighter, can on average can take more g forces for longer before passing out and again, on average, do better in task overload situations. So by your logic I can now discard all male pilot applications, or alternatively are all the male fighter pilots just DEI hires?

Or do you accept my logic that when there are off-balanced demographics we should make sure everyone is getting an equitable opportunity and we are not excluding good candidates even unintentionally?

Show me all programs trying to get women into garbage collecting. I'll wait.

The point is, the NFL wants the best athletes, period. They don't care about representation. It just so happens that the best football players tend to be from a particular race. They don't have quotas requiring a certain number of players at training camp meet certain demographic criteria. Otherwise, the Packers would all be fat beer guzzling bearded men in flannel shirts.

There's also no DEI in elite military units. You think Army Ranger Regiment or Delta Force give a hoot about demographic representation? You either meet their standards, or you don't. In fields where performance actually matters, there's no room for race or gender quotas.

@ha+1jkeqtpej

You make the joke about garbage collectors, but in a lot of historically "dirty" jobs that are traditionally very male there are ongoing, active efforts to attract women.

So yes, my comment applies to all jobs.

@gw+1jkeqtpej

NBA, NFL - We did have those DEI pushes, they just happened in the 1950's.

For anyone out there who can run a 4.2 second 40-yard, I promise there is a spot on an NFL roster waiting for you today regardless of skin color.

"If opportunity is equal, then staff - at all levels - should demographically reflect the population the staff is drawn from."

Why isn't there a push to get more white female garbage truck drivers?

Imagine if we had DEI in the NFL and NBA? Forcing reverse discrimination on a certain group to be placed at the at the back of the job consideration pool based on their skin color, or s-x is ridiculous. I am a white male and have faced this since the 90’s. Enough with this harmful trend. Most qualified period.

@ba+1jkeqtpej

If the "most qualified" is always or nearly always a white christian male that is a problem.

As I've written before:
If opportunity is equal, then staff - at all levels - should demographically reflect the population the staff is drawn from. If, for any reason, the staff doesn't reflect the population then leadership should find out why and take actions to ensure any under-represented groups are given equal opportunities to compete.

If what I wrote offends anyone, then I suggest those offended take a hard look in the mirror and be honest with themselves exactly why that offends.

Not saying you're wrong, but consider what it's like to always have your qualifications doubted if you're not a white man. A white man messes up very badly (cough MR cough) and no one says, well, what can you expect, he's a white man? Or, he must have just got the job to fill a quota. No, he's assumed to be competent until he proves he's not. I'd like that! Instead, it's sometimes assumed I wasn't the best candidate and got in on a program. That's what's wrong.

Diversity is being invited to the party; inclusion is being asked to dance.

"Hire the best candidate regardless of their race" works very well... if nobody in the decision making process is racist and views people purely based on their qualifications. The reason this exists in the first place is to level the playing field. Pretty naive to think we're at that point, don't ya agree, commenters?

BB's gameplan is good for shareholders. If you work there, buy stock, you will do well.

New CEO is implementing an aggressive anti-DEI, anti 'work from home' , and metrics driven agenda.

Woke former CEO and GE reject CFO are gone and the results are coming fast.

Remember most 3M products are made in the countries they are sold in, 3M is a NET EXPORTER to China.

PFAS is a non-issue in the Trump government, no big payouts to 'victims'

Good fundamentals here, room for buyback with the noose of the dividend removed.

Wrong. Some Diversity officers have blue hair while others have pink hair.

What's the least diverse profession in the country?
Chief diversity officer.

Did the CBG president got to where she is due to DEI?

Go promote DEI, Pride and other cultists beliefs outside from work. Almost no one likes this non-sense.

I do think training people to recognize their unconscious biases (we all have them) and to be more aware if other people's life experiences is very valuable, but many of these programs feel more like quotas. It's unfair for everyone.

That's BS. This is not binding to a private company. Have it go or stay but at least be honest.

DEI is the most excluding program and I am glad is over. The best candidate no matter who you are should get the job, promotion ,etc. I am part of a minority and the only thing DEI has done to me is make others believe that I got the job because I am a minority and not the right person for that position.

Most qualified for the position period. Stop the madness.

3M is a government contractor and is bound by the law and executive orders.

Is the executive order not exclusively pertaining to just the Federal government? Does it reach into private corporations?