What has been your experience with first and second line managers? Are they adding any value to your work? I see zero need for them. They are just messengers upward and downward. Is this is case in other groups.
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You just described more than half of the promotions in the company
Do they even hav jobs anymore?
Go into career connect and write down you will refuse any management track jobs
Good managers are rare. They let you know where you stand, encourage you to work hard, and there fair. I've had maybe two good in my career, and not one was employed by EM
@gtx Technical has its own problems….much higher likelihood of PIP as you get up in CL because you are competing with supervisors. BUT it is more fulfilling and your job skills remain employable. I could leave at any time, and know I could find many opportunities….which is maybe why I fee I don’t need to look now.
Please do not forget the SLS that actually FAIL in that role.
Mainly from flawed nosing technique or just too much sociopathing.
These folks then become 'Advisors' and 'Senior Technical Professionals' (STPs).
Actual ghosts in the woods they are.
Though the salaries are more than good.
So everyone should go in career connect and uncheck management. Only technical.
@ixs+1bj5UkbL this is the exact description of what is the job of a FLS.. I did the terrible mistake to accept twice in my carrier to become one..and never ever I will do the same mistake
They are there to handle your PIP paperwork.
A classic example of where we see a plethora of redundant middle management and supervisors is in the finance function in Canada. Incompetant email pushers and boot licke*s, lacking technical knowledge and skills have been promoted without merit. These individuals lack basic decision making skills and cannot compose provide simple guidance on any issue without first consulting mother Exxon. They spend their entire time in zoom meetings and then try to show us how engaged they are in the process.
It is about time, these highly paid waste of money position are sent packing as there are no jobs where these beurocrats can be assigned.
A lot of us are stuck in middle management because we were told that was the only way to advance our careers and we regret it. No desire to move up and play all the backstabbing games. Can’t reverse course. I just try to protect my teams and make sure they know how to play the game.
They have no expertise and no power ... only busy with admin tasks and meaningless meetings unfortunately .... the problem is that they are useless on the job market and they know it
I know in EMIT there are way too many overhead roles, self-proclaimed thought leaders, and fake technical positions staffed by management types without real expertise in their domain. There was another post on here that mentioned how they promoted a bunch of the wrong people too fast, clogging up the talent pipeline. In the US military, as well as in big 4 consulting, there was an “up or out” system for people that couldn’t perform at higher levels. This needs to be incorporated, at least on the management side. Currently, there is a low-risk, high-reward system in place for people as soon as they make it to Supervisor.
Well, firstly, FLS and SLS aren’t middle management. They are the minnows.
Second, no, SLS do no value-added work. They spend 80% of the time as their boss’s lackey and/or attending meaningless meetings, 15% of the time dealing with legitimately cr---y employees (who are the minority of the workforce but suck-up life-force like no ones business.). With the 5% left, they either fall into two categories: 1) they either think of themselves or 2) they think of helping their employees. The #2 guys are the good supervisors.
To a good person, being an SLS is a pretty cr---y self-compromising job.
USELESS. And I see them all day, these guys have no clue, don’t know modern technology, stuck in old ways, always give some garbage story of how good they were or things they did in past, mostly complaining that they are better than the VPs and create a toxic atmosphere. Exxon if you want to save yourself, give incentive and get rid of all the Execs between 50-55 and PIP them out. They are very much a useless bunch of overpaid employees who are creating a toxic culture because of their insecurities.
One word worthless. They add zero value and actually create road blocks for real work instead of helping. Way too many chiefs and not enough Indians
Yes, useless bag boys and girls.
@uyh+1bj5UkbL I feel you brother
My manager is busy all day sitting in meetings collecting information so he can spew it back upward. He has no interest to roll up his sleeves and help. Really frustrating to report to him. Feel like quitting because of him.
OP, to answer your question, let me try to summaries some of their “VERY” important roles:
- Making sure we are all doing our work!
- Rank us and then decide who to PIP, NSI and lay-off “excessive” employees;
- Conduct the unproductive LPSA;
- Remind us of our so-called Training via WebCat;
- Approve our Expense Claims, Leave Application:
- Feedback on our yearly Performance and where we should improve;
- Etc, etc…..
“WITHOUT” them, who is going to do these lousy jobs!
My previous supervisor (before the pandemic) was great. Pushed for growth, training, and would actually fight for you. After the pandemic he was force to early retire and then my current supervisor had to take over our department. He was nice and all but you can tell he didn't really care for our group and didn't understood what we do.
My group head similar suit as my current manager. Didn't know what we do day to day. How will they even defend us from upper management if they don't know, nor care. At that point it was basically any individual was their own manager
As for our group head. He was a monkey in a suiy trying to please his higher ups